Flight Simulator Software - Any Help or Just a Game?

I'm a student pilot and have heard mixed reviews of Flight Sim software.
Some say it's great for a little on the ground practice. Others say it's
really a waste of time.

I don't expect it to really take the place of air time, but I'm wondering if
anyone out there can tell me if it's really useful, and if so, what
accessories are recommended e.g., yoke and pedals.

Thanks in advance

pjbphd

"pjbphd" wrote in message
news:Nx3%c.213310$sh.156079@fed1read06...
I'm a student pilot and have heard mixed reviews of Flight Sim software.
Some say it's great for a little on the ground practice. Others say it's
really a waste of time.

I don't expect it to really take the place of air time, but I'm wondering
if
anyone out there can tell me if it's really useful, and if so, what
accessories are recommended e.g., yoke and pedals.

When I started my training a few years ago, my instructor asked me during
one of the flights if I had used a flight sim program. I said yes and he
told me not to touch it again until I got my ticket. I was keeping my head
inside the cockpit too much. Once I ignored the stuff on the inside of the
plane, my flying got a lot better and I continued on to get my certificate.
I still haven't played with flight sim since...

Others have said that a flight sim program is useful for instrument
instructions, if you don't use it to pick up or enhance bad habits. Save
your money for the yoke and pedals and invest it in flying hours, a decent
headset, etc.

YMMV

"pjbphd" wrote in message
news:Nx3%c.213310$sh.156079@fed1read06...
I'm a student pilot and have heard mixed reviews of Flight Sim software.
Some say it's great for a little on the ground practice. Others say it's
really a waste of time.

I don't expect it to really take the place of air time, but I'm wondering
if
anyone out there can tell me if it's really useful, and if so, what
accessories are recommended e.g., yoke and pedals.

Thanks in advance

pjbphd



Pedals for sure. The twist action of a joystick rudder does not translate
well to the real thing. You "push" on the wrong side.

Obviously, a yoke-with-throttle-quadrant will also be better than a
joystick, but the left-right-back-forth action of a joystick for aileron and
elevator will carry over fairly easily.

Having said that, most joysticks are designed for right hand with left hand
throttle, and that is backward to a real-life left seat..... If you do opt
for a joystick, get one of those that allows you to reverse the throttle so
that you can operate the control with the left hand, and the throttle with
the right.

As for the "help-or-game" argument, you will find the internet is full of
real-life pilots who tell you it is great, and full of real-life pilots who
tell you it is not. So I guess each individual has to determine that for
themselves.

Icebound wrote:
Having said that, most joysticks are designed for right hand with left hand
throttle, and that is backward to a real-life left seat..... If you do opt
for a joystick, get one of those that allows you to reverse the throttle so
that you can operate the control with the left hand, and the throttle with
the right.

That's because military jets use that configuration. Senior cadets
at the air force academy learn to fly in the right seat so that they
get used to throttle-left, stick-right.

"Icebound" wrote in message
ogers.com...

"pjbphd" wrote in message
news:Nx3%c.213310$sh.156079@fed1read06...
I'm a student pilot and have heard mixed reviews of Flight Sim software.
Some say it's great for a little on the ground practice. Others say it's
really a waste of time.

I don't expect it to really take the place of air time, but I'm wondering
if
anyone out there can tell me if it's really useful, and if so, what
accessories are recommended e.g., yoke and pedals.

Thanks in advance

pjbphd



Pedals for sure. The twist action of a joystick rudder does not translate
well to the real thing. You "push" on the wrong side.

The direction of the twist effect is programmable in the flight sims I'm
aware of. But I agree it's better to have pedals.

Obviously, a yoke-with-throttle-quadrant will also be better than a
joystick, but the left-right-back-forth action of a joystick for aileron
and
elevator will carry over fairly easily.

Yup, it does carry over. I find a force-feedback joystick more realistic
than a non-feedback yoke.

Having said that, most joysticks are designed for right hand with left
hand
throttle, and that is backward to a real-life left seat..... If you do opt
for a joystick, get one of those that allows you to reverse the throttle
so
that you can operate the control with the left hand, and the throttle with
the right.

I prefer to ignore the throttle control on the joystick, and just mouse the
throttle control on the panel (along with the mixture and prop controls).
FS2004 lets you use the mouse's scroll wheel for fine adjustments of the
throttle.

--Gary

The main problem for a new student pilot taking up actual dual
instruction in a real airplane is that in the initial stages of flight
training, learning to interface physically, mentally, and visually with
a real aircraft in flight requires that control pressures and how these
pressures interrelate to the aircraft in flight be learned. It's for
this and other less serious differences between the sim and the actual
aircraft cockpit environment that I STRONGLY recommend that all new
students shy completely away from the use a desktop simulator during the
initial stages of training before solo.
So damaging can the use of the simulator be during this stage, that it's
use can actually retard the progress of a new student.
The sims have limited uses later on when PROCEDURES are the issue, not
the hand flying of the airplane per se'
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

"pjbphd" wrote in message
news:Nx3%c.213310$sh.156079@fed1read06...
I'm a student pilot and have heard mixed reviews of Flight Sim
software.
Some say it's great for a little on the ground practice. Others say
it's
really a waste of time.

I don't expect it to really take the place of air time, but I'm
wondering if
anyone out there can tell me if it's really useful, and if so, what
accessories are recommended e.g., yoke and pedals.

Thanks in advance

pjbphd

So damaging can the use of the simulator be during this stage, that it's
use can actually retard the progress of a new student.

Another point of view:

I learned to fly ten years ago in 1994. I started "flying" sims in the
mid-80s, when they were little more than wire-frame depictions of flight.
(Anyone remember Atari STs?) By the time I could afford real flight lessons,
I had a zillion hours of sim time.

At least partially as a result, I took to flying immediately, and soloed
with just 6.4 hours in my logbook.

Quite frankly, I'd be willing to bet that my time riding motorcycles was
just as helpful in learning to fly (the physics of riding and flying are
nearly identical) -- but my instructor (who, by the way, was an older
gentleman and quite the technophobe. He believed that computers were evil
devices from Day One.) figured that all my sim time really helped --
especially in the early stages of flight instruction.

Your mileage may vary, of course.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Z15%c.136659$Fg5.37892@attbi_s53...
So damaging can the use of the simulator be during this stage, that
it's use can actually retard the progress of a new student.

Another point of view:

I learned to fly ten years ago in 1994. I started "flying" sims in the
mid-80s, when they were little more than wire-frame depictions of
flight. (Anyone remember Atari STs?) By the time I could afford real
flight lessons, I had a zillion hours of sim time.

At least partially as a result, I took to flying immediately, and
soloed with just 6.4 hours in my logbook.

Quite frankly, I'd be willing to bet that my time riding motorcycles
was just as helpful in learning to fly (the physics of riding and
flying are nearly identical) -- but my instructor (who, by the way,
was an older gentleman and quite the technophobe. He believed that
computers were evil devices from Day One.) figured that all my sim
time really helped -- especially in the early stages of flight
instruction.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

Although your motorcycle skills and experience would most certainly have
had a positive effect on accelerating the learning process in the
airplane, the actual effect of flying a desktop simulator would have
limited effect. It's true that the simulator would have taught you the
basic DIRECTION of movement for each control, and that would be a
positive, but for the actual purpose of flying an airplane, it's
PRESSURES and RATES that are the pertinent factors, NOT direction!
Control direction is learned early on and the good instructor gets away
from direction quickly and begins working you with pressures
immediately. Over concentration on control direction is one of the big
negatives that has to be addressed by instructors with students coming
out of a heavy desktop sim environment into the real world of actual
flying.
From the instructor's viewpoint, the negatives involved in acclimating a
student to the control pressure environment after having been exposed to
a directional environment only as it exists in the sim; FAR exceeds any
positives gained through the knowledge and use of a joystick in a
simulator.
The motorcycle experience however would have been a huge plus, as is any
(hand eye vs pressure of application equals coordination )background.
In your case, I'm fairly certain that the reason for your accelerated
progress wasn't your sim experience, but rather the motorcycle skills
coupled with your extreme positive motivation and ability to learn and
absorb quickly.

I'm sure it helped however, that from the tons of hours you spent flying
the simulator, you already knew which direction to move the controls.
Why if you had been one of my students, this valuable information would
have saved you a HUGE amount of learning time.....say about the first
fifteen seconds of your first dual hour when I explained control
direction to you. Then of course, I could begin the process of weaning
you off the expected sim reaction and into the real world of getting to
know those pesky control pressures. Who knows...with all that motorcycle
training and hand eye stuff going for us, we might even get into those
pressures without wasting all that much time; but that would of course
depend on how good I was at getting you to let go of all that sim time,
and how receptive you were to actually letting it go!! :-)

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

Although your motorcycle skills and experience would most certainly have
had a positive effect on accelerating the learning process in the
airplane, the actual effect of flying a desktop simulator would have
limited effect. It's true that the simulator would have taught you the
basic DIRECTION of movement for each control, and that would be a
positive, but for the actual purpose of flying an airplane, it's
PRESSURES and RATES that are the pertinent factors, NOT direction!



This has made me rethink a little. My time windsurfing surely helped in
this regard.

--
Dave A

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Z15%c.136659$Fg5.37892@attbi_s53...
So damaging can the use of the simulator be during this stage, that
it's use can actually retard the progress of a new student.

Another point of view:

I learned to fly ten years ago in 1994. I started "flying" sims in the
mid-80s, when they were little more than wire-frame depictions of
flight. (Anyone remember Atari STs?) By the time I could afford real
flight lessons, I had a zillion hours of sim time.

At least partially as a result, I took to flying immediately, and
soloed with just 6.4 hours in my logbook.

Quite frankly, I'd be willing to bet that my time riding motorcycles
was just as helpful in learning to fly (the physics of riding and
flying are nearly identical) -- but my instructor (who, by the way,
was an older gentleman and quite the technophobe. He believed that
computers were evil devices from Day One.) figured that all my sim
time really helped -- especially in the early stages of flight
instruction.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

Control direction is learned early on and the good instructor gets away
from direction quickly and begins working you with pressures
immediately. Over concentration on control direction is one of the big
negatives that has to be addressed by instructors with students coming
out of a heavy desktop sim environment into the real world of actual
flying.
From the instructor's viewpoint, the negatives involved in acclimating a
student to the control pressure environment after having been exposed to
a directional environment only as it exists in the sim; FAR exceeds any
positives gained through the knowledge and use of a joystick in a
simulator.
The motorcycle experience however would have been a huge plus, as is any
(hand eye vs pressure of application equals coordination )background.
In your case, I'm fairly certain that the reason for your accelerated
progress wasn't your sim experience, but rather the motorcycle skills
coupled with your extreme positive motivation and ability to learn and
absorb quickly.

I'm sure it helped however, that from the tons of hours you spent flying
the simulator, you already knew which direction to move the controls.
Why if you had been one of my students, this valuable information would
have saved you a HUGE amount of learning time.....say about the first
fifteen seconds of your first dual hour when I explained control
direction to you. Then of course, I could begin the process of weaning
you off the expected sim reaction and into the real world of getting to
know those pesky control pressures. Who knows...with all that motorcycle
training and hand eye stuff going for us, we might even get into those
pressures without wasting all that much time; but that would of course
depend on how good I was at getting you to let go of all that sim time,
and how receptive you were to actually letting it go!! :-)

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

"Dave" wrote in message
news:aNq%c.1509$sS4.87@trndny03...

Although your motorcycle skills and experience would most certainly
have
had a positive effect on accelerating the learning process in the
airplane, the actual effect of flying a desktop simulator would have
limited effect. It's true that the simulator would have taught you
the
basic DIRECTION of movement for each control, and that would be a
positive, but for the actual purpose of flying an airplane, it's
PRESSURES and RATES that are the pertinent factors, NOT direction!



This has made me rethink a little. My time windsurfing surely helped
in
this regard.

--
Dave A

I'm sure it did. Students coming into flight training with a good
background in sports; normal or better reasoning skills; and a high
positive motivation based on positive incentive are very easy to work
with and train.
Surprisingly enough, a background in aviation related subjects can be
either an asset or a liability depending on exactly what has been
absorbed. It's a complete toss up in this area until the instructor
discovers what can be used and what has to be changed. Some of the most
difficult students I ever had, brought prior aviation knowledge into the
learning curve with them that was flawed...but as I said, it can be an
asset as well. The problem is that prior aviation knowledge has to be
evaluated by the instructor and this takes time away that could have
been spent in more productive ways.
All things considered, I much preferred the student coming in cold in
the aviation knowledge department and heavy in the other attributes I
mentioned.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship