Logging Total Time?

Does anyone know what the rules are around logging total time?

My specific example is a person who flew literally hundreds of hours
before getting a license (no solo privs either). He performed all the
duties of the flight including take-off, cross country navigation,
landing, communications, maneuvers, etc... He was always accompanied
by someone who was acting as pilot in command, but whom never touched
the stick. Is it legal for him to log total time for these flights?
Is there a way to log total time without logging either PIC, SIC, or
Dual Received/Given?

Thanks for any responses to this.

z

You cannot log PIC unless you are rated, receiving dual, or sole manipulator
(solo or with a safety pilot).. and a whole bunch of other reasons.. Total
time can be logged for the "acting PIC", again need to be rated, the safety
pilot for his buddy under the IFR hood, etc.

actually.. this guy in your example can log anything he wants.. it's his log
book, the question is.. will the huge total time hours before he actually
logs any dual received or solo time count towards anything as far as
additional ratings...??? NO

but if he wants to log total time in the air... even as a pax.. that's his
log book..

BT

"zatatime" wrote in message
...
Does anyone know what the rules are around logging total time?

My specific example is a person who flew literally hundreds of hours
before getting a license (no solo privs either). He performed all the
duties of the flight including take-off, cross country navigation,
landing, communications, maneuvers, etc... He was always accompanied
by someone who was acting as pilot in command, but whom never touched
the stick. Is it legal for him to log total time for these flights?
Is there a way to log total time without logging either PIC, SIC, or
Dual Received/Given?

Thanks for any responses to this.

z

BTIZ wrote:
You cannot log PIC unless you are rated, receiving dual, or sole
manipulator
(solo or with a safety pilot).. and a whole bunch of other reasons.. Total
time can be logged for the "acting PIC", again need to be rated, the
safety
pilot for his buddy under the IFR hood, etc.

"Receiving dual" has nothing to do with logging PIC. If you believe it
does, please quote the FAR.

Hilton

rules are around logging total time

The FAA has not defined "Total Time", so there are no rules about it.

Greg Esres wrote:

rules are around logging total time

The FAA has not defined "Total Time", so there are no rules about it.

.... except for the rules of arithmetic, a total being the sum of the
various categorized flight times.

As far as logging time in the OP's case, dual would come closest, but
then the person giving instruction and the circumstances would have to
qualify.

- FChE

"Frank Ch. Eigler" wrote in message
...

... except for the rules of arithmetic, a total being the sum of the
various categorized flight times.

As far as logging time in the OP's case, dual would come closest, but
then the person giving instruction and the circumstances would have to
qualify.

- FChE

Agreed,

I have logged every flight "experience" but unless I qualified as PIC(which
includes safety pilot of simulated instrument), or the other pilot was a
CFI. The "time" was not loggable to "Total Time".
Example: First ride in a taildragger, me a student, pilot a PPL, I was
allowed to manipulate controls in cruise. Log
entry-Date,Place,Aircraft,First ride in taildragger,0-Landings,0-Time

This is what I was instructed and how I understand it.

Marty

... except for the rules of arithmetic, a total being the sum of the
various categorized flight times.

Still just speculation on your part. There is no reason to think that
the listed categorized kinds of time are exhaustive.

The person the OP mentioned got valuable experience, but which may not
fall into any official category.

He can certainly log it as "Total Time" because Total Time can mean
whatever he wants it to mean.

Much of the confusion over this subject would go away if people would
use the proper terms.

"Greg Esres" wrote in message
...
... except for the rules of arithmetic, a total being the sum of the
various categorized flight times.

Still just speculation on your part. There is no reason to think that
the listed categorized kinds of time are exhaustive.

The person the OP mentioned got valuable experience, but which may not
fall into any official category.

He can certainly log it as "Total Time" because Total Time can mean
whatever he wants it to mean.

Much of the confusion over this subject would go away if people would
use the proper terms.

Yes, especially the FAA. But as long as the FAA's aeronautical-experience
regulations speak of "total time as a pilot" (presumably meaning the same
thing as the defined term "pilot time"), it seems reasonable for pilots
abbreviate that phrase to "total time" (in a context that clearly refers to
time as a pilot).

--Gary

Greg Esres wrote:

... except for the rules of arithmetic, a total being the sum of the
various categorized flight times.

Still just speculation on your part. There is no reason to think that
the listed categorized kinds of time are exhaustive.

Fine. He can invent a "was a helpful passenger" column/category in a
log book, and add it there, and thence accumulate into a "total".

The person the OP mentioned got valuable experience, but which may not
fall into any official category. [...]

That's true. Nevertheless, if the person is proposing to use this
valuable but unofficial time in furtherance of ratings or insurance
experience credits, he had better discuss this with the respective
agency, lest he be suspected of fraud.

- FChE

On 19 Dec 2004 04:36:55 -0500, (Frank Ch. Eigler)
wrote:


Greg Esres wrote:

rules are around logging total time

The FAA has not defined "Total Time", so there are no rules about it.

... except for the rules of arithmetic, a total being the sum of the
various categorized flight times.

As far as logging time in the OP's case, dual would come closest, but
then the person giving instruction and the circumstances would have to
qualify.

- FChE

Unfortunately the PIC was an ATP.

z