Sectional Chart Question

A pilot recently asked me a question, that I cannot find the answer to.

On a sectional chart, around cities, are yellow areas.
What are they?
Where on the legend can this be found?

My answer was "congested areas of a city or town" which I though sounded
official
enough to work. Ah-Ha, he says, "Show me."

The specific area in question is just south of Sunriver, on the Klamath
Falls sectional. (DSD 175 @ about 25nm) I've flown over it, and it is a
combination of golf courses.

Over beer last night, one fellow suggested that it is marked that way
for "National Security Reasons".
Wink, Wink, nudge, nudge, "You are not supposed to ask.", "Why do you think
they left it off the legend."

Am I just blind? Is the print too small? Can anyone else find it on
the legend?

Al Gerharter

Teranews wrote:
On a sectional chart, around cities, are yellow areas.
What are they?
Where on the legend can this be found?

My answer was "congested areas of a city or town"

Close, They're supposed to be areas which are lit up at night.

The specific area in question is just south of Sunriver, on the Klamath
Falls sectional. (DSD 175 @ about 25nm) I've flown over it, and it is a
combination of golf courses.

Golf courses lit up for night golf???

So where did you find it?
Al



"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Teranews wrote:
On a sectional chart, around cities, are yellow areas.
What are they?
Where on the legend can this be found?

My answer was "congested areas of a city or town"

Close, They're supposed to be areas which are lit up at night.

The specific area in question is just south of Sunriver, on the Klamath
Falls sectional. (DSD 175 @ about 25nm) I've flown over it, and it is a
combination of golf courses.

Golf courses lit up for night golf???

On 6/20/2005 12:30, Teranews wrote:

A pilot recently asked me a question, that I cannot find the answer to.

On a sectional chart, around cities, are yellow areas.
What are they?
Where on the legend can this be found?

These represent the congested parts of the cities. This should
(roughly) match the look of the city when lit up at night.


My answer was "congested areas of a city or town" which I though sounded
official
enough to work. Ah-Ha, he says, "Show me."

Have him look in the Aeronautical Chart User's Guide (from NACO).
You can see it on line he

http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/aero_guide

Specifically, look in the section (PDF) titled "VFR Chart Symbols",
on page 19, under the entry titled "POPULATED PLACES OUTLINED".


The specific area in question is just south of Sunriver, on the Klamath
Falls sectional. (DSD 175 @ about 25nm) I've flown over it, and it is a
combination of golf courses.

Over beer last night, one fellow suggested that it is marked that way
for "National Security Reasons".

No.

Wink, Wink, nudge, nudge, "You are not supposed to ask.", "Why do you think
they left it off the legend."

The legend don't cover everything. That's why they have the book.

If you don't have it yet, you should pick on up (you can get one at
most Pilot shops for around $5) and read it. It includes lots of
great information. Then you can ask your pilot friend a few questions
that he won't be able to answer ;-)


Am I just blind? Is the print too small? Can anyone else find it on
the legend?

Al Gerharter





--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA

Thanks Mark, good shortcut. I'll get mine soon. Al


"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2005 12:30, Teranews wrote:

A pilot recently asked me a question, that I cannot find the answer to.

On a sectional chart, around cities, are yellow areas.
What are they?
Where on the legend can this be found?

These represent the congested parts of the cities. This should
(roughly) match the look of the city when lit up at night.


My answer was "congested areas of a city or town" which I though sounded
official
enough to work. Ah-Ha, he says, "Show me."

Have him look in the Aeronautical Chart User's Guide (from NACO).
You can see it on line he

http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/aero_guide

Specifically, look in the section (PDF) titled "VFR Chart Symbols",
on page 19, under the entry titled "POPULATED PLACES OUTLINED".


The specific area in question is just south of Sunriver, on the Klamath
Falls sectional. (DSD 175 @ about 25nm) I've flown over it, and it is a
combination of golf courses.

Over beer last night, one fellow suggested that it is marked that way
for "National Security Reasons".

No.

Wink, Wink, nudge, nudge, "You are not supposed to ask.", "Why do you
think they left it off the legend."

The legend don't cover everything. That's why they have the book.

If you don't have it yet, you should pick on up (you can get one at
most Pilot shops for around $5) and read it. It includes lots of
great information. Then you can ask your pilot friend a few questions
that he won't be able to answer ;-)


Am I just blind? Is the print too small? Can anyone else find it on
the legend?

Al Gerharter





--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:40:40 -0700, Mark Hansen
wrote:

These represent the congested parts of the cities. This should
(roughly) match the look of the city when lit up at night.

Amazing. Nobody ever told me that!

What would we do with newsgroups to consume our time and fill our
minds with facts?



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:40:40 -0700, Mark Hansen
wrote:

These represent the congested parts of the cities. This should
(roughly) match the look of the city when lit up at night.

Amazing. Nobody ever told me that!

You've had a deprived life. :~(


What would we do with newsgroups to consume our time and fill our
minds with facts?

How would you handle this:

ATC tells me "Stay west of Federal Blvd during your departure".

I response "I can't make out the street signs from up here".

On 6/21/2005 13:59, Matt Barrow wrote:

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:40:40 -0700, Mark Hansen
wrote:

These represent the congested parts of the cities. This should
(roughly) match the look of the city when lit up at night.

Amazing. Nobody ever told me that!

You've had a deprived life. :~(


What would we do with newsgroups to consume our time and fill our
minds with facts?

How would you handle this:

ATC tells me "Stay west of Federal Blvd during your departure".

I response "I can't make out the street signs from up here".

Was this a rhetorical question? If ATC references the landmark, it
should be a navigation landmark, and indicated on the sectional
with a magenta flag; right?

The A/FD and Flight Guide are other good places for 'local'
information like this. When they have a documented procedure like
this, they will usually show it on the airport diagram in or both
of those books.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 6/21/2005 13:59, Matt Barrow wrote:


How would you handle this:

ATC tells me "Stay west of Federal Blvd during your departure".

I response "I can't make out the street signs from up here".

Was this a rhetorical question?

Not entirely.

If ATC references the landmark, it
should be a navigation landmark, and indicated on the sectional
with a magenta flag; right?

Yes.

The A/FD and Flight Guide are other good places for 'local'
information like this. When they have a documented procedure like
this, they will usually show it on the airport diagram in or both
of those books.

In the case in point (several years ago), I did know the location but I
don't recall if it was on the chart and it most definitely was NOT on the
procedure chart. I wonder how many such Nav fixes are discernable to
non-locals?


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2005 12:30, Teranews wrote:
On a sectional chart, around cities, are yellow areas.
What are they?
Where on the legend can this be found?

These represent the congested parts of the cities. This should
(roughly) match the look of the city when lit up at night.
...
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/aero_guide

Useful pointer--thanks!

Note though that it refers to "populated" places, not "congested" places.
"Congested" has technical meaning in the FARs (regarding altitude rules),
and it's not clear whether "populated" means the same thing.

--Gary