MOA??

I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA.

Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is hot, what
is ATC going to do?

Mitty wrote:

I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA.

Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is hot, what
is ATC going to do?

They won't clear you into a hot MOA unless they can provide separation. Usually,
they cannot so your only option is to cancel when they refuse to provide an IFR
clearance. Having said that, file and see what happens.

"Mitty" wrote in message
...

I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA.

Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is
hot, what is ATC going to do?


One way or another they'll keep you out of it. Assuming you're traveling
some distance they'll probably do nothing at departure. The departure
controller may have no knowledge of the MOA and issue a clearance that
enters it. But if it's hot as you approach it you'll get a new clearance
limit.

I'd agree that IFR is safer or at least provides more utility.

Passing thru various MOAs flying from RDU to LAL last weekend, some of
the MOAs were hot but apparently the hot parts were smaller than the
published limits. The controllers cleared me and others thru parts that
must have been cool. At the same time, they kept traffic out of certain
sections of the same MOA. We were all trying to avoid storms.


Mitty wrote:
I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA.

Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is
hot, what is ATC going to do?

"Mitty" wrote in message
...
I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA.

Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is
hot, what is ATC going to do?

ATC owns the MOA. If need be, they can block the military aircraft in the
MOA to altitude deconflict from you under you're through. File IFR and
follow their instructions. If that doesn't work for you, file VFR and go
anyway. Military pilots are well trained that MOA are not exclusive use
airspace and civilian traffic may transit the airspace at any time. ATC
will likely give them point outs of your location and they will avoid you
even if you're VFR (as long as you're transponder is working).

Which MOA is it?

"John Doe" wrote in message
link.net...

ATC owns the MOA.


In what way?



If need be, they can block the military aircraft in the MOA to altitude
deconflict from you under you're through.


No they can't. They don't work the traffic in the MOA.



File IFR and follow their instructions. If that doesn't work for you,
file VFR and go anyway. Military pilots are well trained that MOA are not
exclusive use airspace and civilian traffic may transit the airspace at
any time.


Not under IFR.



ATC will likely give them point outs of your location and they will avoid
you even if you're VFR (as long as you're transponder is working).


They're not on ATC frequency.



Which MOA is it?


Falls 1.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"John Doe" wrote
ATC owns the MOA.

In what way?

If need be, they can block the military aircraft in the MOA to altitude
deconflict from you under you're through.

No they can't. They don't work the traffic in the MOA.

File IFR and follow their instructions. If that doesn't work for you,
file VFR and go anyway. Military pilots are well trained that MOA are not
exclusive use airspace and civilian traffic may transit the airspace at
any time.

Not under IFR.

ATC will likely give them point outs of your location and they will avoid
you even if you're VFR (as long as you're transponder is working).

They're not on ATC frequency.

Which MOA is it?

Falls 1.

Hi Steven, are your answers specific to the Falls 1 MOA, or true for MOAs in
general? I thought ATC sometimes worked the military traffic inside the MOA. Is
that never true? Thanks.

Dave

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1120654012.820341@sj-nntpcache-5...

Hi Steven, are your answers specific to the Falls 1 MOA, or true for MOAs
in general? I thought ATC sometimes worked the military traffic inside the
MOA. Is that never true? Thanks.


My answers apply to Falls 1 and the nearby Volk MOAs.

ok, I'll bite.

Does civilian ATC sometimes work a hot MOA? How/why/when ?

On 7/6/2005 7:56 AM, Steven P. McNicoll wrote the following:
"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1120654012.820341@sj-nntpcache-5...

Hi Steven, are your answers specific to the Falls 1 MOA, or true for MOAs
in general? I thought ATC sometimes worked the military traffic inside the
MOA. Is that never true? Thanks.



My answers apply to Falls 1 and the nearby Volk MOAs.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...

"John Doe" wrote in message
link.net...

ATC owns the MOA.


In what way?


MILITARY OPERATIONS AREA (MOA): Airspace established outside the Positive
Control Area (PCA) to separate/segregate certain military activities from
IFR traffic and to identify for VFR traffic where these activities are
conducted. Whenever a MOA is active, nonparticipating IFR traffic may be
cleared through the area provided ATC can ensure IFR separation; otherwise,
ATC will reroute or restrict nonparticipating IFR traffic.

Military does not get exclusive use of a MOA, just because it's identified
as a MOA. A MOA is just a chunk of VFR airspace that's been identified by
ATC as an area used by military traffic. Each MOA might have specific
arrangments made between the local ATC and the miliary on altitudes, types
of use, etc.



If need be, they can block the military aircraft in the MOA to altitude
deconflict from you under you're through.


No they can't. They don't work the traffic in the MOA.


Yea, actually they do. I have over 2000 hours flying military jets in MOAs
and every single time I have been in contact with ATC. They normally have a
UHF working freq assigned to the MOA that military aircraft will monitor.
While not actively receiving any services from ATC while in the MOA, ATC
always has a freq to contact them on if needed, Guard being the last resort.
I have recieved countless changes to my clearance while in a MOA, effecting
my block altitudes, traffic advisories, etc from ATC while working in MOAs.




ATC will likely give them point outs of your location and they will avoid
you even if you're VFR (as long as you're transponder is working).


They're not on ATC frequency.


Already commented on this. Yes they are, just not the one you're listening
to. They are not on same VHF freq as civilian traffic. ATC is talking to
them on a seperate UHF freq, specific to that MOA.