Engine over TBO at purchase

Hi group.
I am interested in buying a Sundowner with 2035 TT E&A.
The owner (actually the broker) offered to allow $5K off the asking price to
have the engine O/H'd.
I am a student pilot and very much want this particular airplane, but I
don't think that $5K off a $14K O/H is reasonable.
The avionics are ok, but could be improved on. My biggest concern at this
point is the engine time.
Any opinions on what is fair to me and the seller concerning allowances for
the engine O/H?
Thanks in advance.

Gary
Future pilot without a plane

I'd be suspicious of the engine not being overhauled already. He
probably just doesn't have the cash, but it's possible that the seller
found a problem so significant that he could recoup the cost of the
repair in the sale, and is trying to "dump" the plane unrepaired.

I'd consider offering the fair value of the plane minus the cost of
replacing the engine with a brand new one, or maybe contingent on
getting the overhaul. If the seller didn't like those ideas, I
wouldn't worry that I missed out on a great plane.

In article ,
"DHead" wrote:

Hi group.
I am interested in buying a Sundowner with 2035 TT E&A.
The owner (actually the broker) offered to allow $5K off the asking price to
have the engine O/H'd.
I am a student pilot and very much want this particular airplane, but I
don't think that $5K off a $14K O/H is reasonable.
The avionics are ok, but could be improved on. My biggest concern at this
point is the engine time.
Any opinions on what is fair to me and the seller concerning allowances for
the engine O/H?

what is the asking price? what would be the asking price of the aircraft with
a good overhaul?

In general, it is always cheaper for the buyer to have the previous owner
pay for things because a seller never seems to be able to recover 100%
cost of repairs/improvements. However, be cautious of a cheapo
overhaul.

I'd recommend caution about buying an aircraft with a runout engine.
Overhauling an engine can be a great learning experience, and can
also be a lot of work, with lots of traps for the unwary.

good luck

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

I'd buy the airplane cheap and then do the overhaul myself.. then you know
what you have... not a cheap overhaul by the seller.

Get an engine shop to tell you the overhaul cost, then add 50% for
"unknowns".
You don't know until it's opened up that the crank and case are good.

O-540 Overhaul just completed, quoted $19000 with a good crank and case.
Price dropped to $17500 because the cylinders were good. Price included mag
overhaul, carb overhaul etc.

Then we ended up spending $500 on a new starter and $500 on new hoses and
clamps etc

Price does not include the labor cost to remove and install the engine.

BT

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"DHead" wrote:

Hi group.
I am interested in buying a Sundowner with 2035 TT E&A.
The owner (actually the broker) offered to allow $5K off the asking price
to
have the engine O/H'd.
I am a student pilot and very much want this particular airplane, but I
don't think that $5K off a $14K O/H is reasonable.
The avionics are ok, but could be improved on. My biggest concern at this
point is the engine time.
Any opinions on what is fair to me and the seller concerning allowances
for
the engine O/H?

what is the asking price? what would be the asking price of the aircraft
with
a good overhaul?

In general, it is always cheaper for the buyer to have the previous owner
pay for things because a seller never seems to be able to recover 100%
cost of repairs/improvements. However, be cautious of a cheapo
overhaul.

I'd recommend caution about buying an aircraft with a runout engine.
Overhauling an engine can be a great learning experience, and can
also be a lot of work, with lots of traps for the unwary.

good luck

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

DHead wrote:

Any opinions on what is fair to me and the seller concerning allowances for
the engine O/H?

Whats the oil consumption and compression readings, does the
engine/plane still perform like the manual says, whats the history of
the engine, ie. has it been topped? Making TBO and beyond may mean a
well cared for engine that can continue to operate for many years to
come without an OH...

Darrel Toepfer wrote:
DHead wrote:
Any opinions on what is fair to me and the seller concerning
allowances for the engine O/H?

Whats the oil consumption and compression readings, does the
engine/plane still perform like the manual says, whats the history of
the engine, ie. has it been topped? Making TBO and beyond may mean a
well cared for engine that can continue to operate for many years to
come without an OH...

Also, take the $5k and put it into a OH account, save away additional
funds for each hour flown... You just might make it though training with
doing nothing but oil changes and keeping the tanks filled. Sell the
plane and move on when done...

I would walk away.

There are thousands of planes for sale with plenty good lower time engines.


"DHead" wrote in message
...
Hi group.
I am interested in buying a Sundowner with 2035 TT E&A.
The owner (actually the broker) offered to allow $5K off the asking price
to have the engine O/H'd.
I am a student pilot and very much want this particular airplane, but I
don't think that $5K off a $14K O/H is reasonable.
The avionics are ok, but could be improved on. My biggest concern at this
point is the engine time.
Any opinions on what is fair to me and the seller concerning allowances
for the engine O/H?
Thanks in advance.

Gary
Future pilot without a plane

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:10:57 +0000, John Doe wrote:

I would walk away.

Well, I wouldn't necessarily. It depends.

I bought my current plane with a runout engine at an appropriately
discounted price. I then had the overhaul done the way I wanted it, by
the shop I wanted to do it. I was planning to keep the aircraft a long
time, so the quality of the work was important to me.

I looked at a lot of planes out there with cheap overhauls done for the
purpose of sale. Some were already leaking oil at 100 SMOH.

As to the $5K - that's kind of meaningless. I'd figure $20K to do
a quality overhaul of everything forward of the firewall. Determine what
the plane would be worth - accounting for the condition of airframe and
radios - with a fresh overhaul, subtract $20K, and that's what this one is
worth.

When you do your Vref it will automatically account for the engine time
in the price evaluation.

I'll take an engine with 2500 since FREMAN before a 200 hrs since a "Dip &
Ship" overhaul anytime.
"John Doe" wrote in message
ink.net...
I would walk away.

There are thousands of planes for sale with plenty good lower time
engines.


"DHead" wrote in message
...
Hi group.
I am interested in buying a Sundowner with 2035 TT E&A.
The owner (actually the broker) offered to allow $5K off the asking
price
to have the engine O/H'd.
I am a student pilot and very much want this particular airplane, but I
don't think that $5K off a $14K O/H is reasonable.
The avionics are ok, but could be improved on. My biggest concern at
this
point is the engine time.
Any opinions on what is fair to me and the seller concerning allowances
for the engine O/H?
Thanks in advance.

Gary
Future pilot without a plane