LAS incident

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/29/na...erland&emc=rss

September 29, 2005
Near Miss for 2 Jets on a Las Vegas Runway
By MATTHEW L. WALD

WASHINGTON, Sept. 28 - An America West passenger jet taking off from Las
Vegas missed hitting an Air Canada jet by about 100 feet last Thursday
night, according to a preliminary report, because a controller in the tower
confused two planes and issued conflicting instructions.

The controller has been taken off duty and sent for more training, according
to the Federal Aviation Administration, and the episode is under
investigation.

America West Flight 539, departing for Cleveland, was cleared for takeoff
about 11 p.m. local time on Runway 25 Right. At the same time, Air Canada
Flight 593 had landed on Runway 25 Left, a parallel runway, on a flight from
Toronto, and had been cleared to taxi to the terminal, across 25 Right. A
collision was averted because the America West plane was airborne by the
time it reached the point where the Air Canada plane was crossing.

The America West and Air Canada planes were both midsized Airbus jets that
carry more than 100 passengers.

An F.A.A. spokeswoman said Wednesday that the agency did not believe that
the America West plane had flown directly over the Air Canada plane, but
that investigators were still trying to determine how close the two jets
came.

Donn Walker, an F.A.A. spokesman, said the tower controller had cleared the
America West plane for takeoff. Then a different America West plane, a
Boeing 757, taxiing behind Flight 539, asked for a brief delay. The
controller responded by revoking the takeoff clearance for the 757 -
although he had never issued one for that plane - and cleared the Air Canada
plane to cross the runway. Meanwhile Flight 539, duly cleared, rolled down
the runway for takeoff.

"Our system is set up as much as possible to absorb human error and still
not have a collision," Mr. Walker said.

He said, as did others, that the aviation agency had computer systems in
place that would alert controllers to some kinds of human error, like pilots
not following directions because they misheard an instruction or got lost in
the field, but that it did not have an automatic system for warning
controllers about confusing two airplanes.

In July at Kennedy International Airport in New York, a DC-8 cargo plane
nearly hit a fully loaded Boeing 767 that blundered onto the active runway.
The tower controller could not spot the problem because of heavy rain and
clouds that cut visibility to near zero and made radar ineffective. The
aviation agency has a system for seeing through clouds and rain, using
signals given off by the planes themselves, as opposed to radar, which
bounces electromagnetic energy off the planes' skins. But the agency has not
installed it at Kennedy.

("H.P." wrote)
September 29, 2005
Near Miss for 2 Jets on a Las Vegas Runway
By MATTHEW L. WALD

WASHINGTON, Sept. 28 - An America West passenger jet taking off from Las
Vegas missed hitting an Air Canada jet by about 100 feet last Thursday
night, according to a preliminary report, because a controller in the
tower confused two planes and issued conflicting instructions.

[snip]
He said, as did others, that the aviation agency had computer systems in
place...

The aviation agency has a system for seeing through clouds and rain, using
signals given off by the planes themselves, as opposed to radar, which
bounces electromagnetic energy off the planes' skins. But the agency has
not installed it at Kennedy.


I thought it was odd, in a creapy kind of way, that the reporter kept
referring to it as 'the agency.' Very Matt Helm, ...or Our Man Flint. Either
one.


Montblack

I can't understand why a series of stop/caution/go lights has not been
implemented at intesections of runways and taxiways. Controller clears one
aircraft for takeoff, the intersection lights go from yellow to red.
Progessive taxiing is following a series of green lights. It seems so cheap
and easy -- much easier than cleaning up the wreckage of two jets.

But that's just like another idea I had, make all runway lights respond to
VHF Guard in addition to the CTAF or other published frequency. I was
flying back near Philly one night, juggling the usual combination of charts
and pencils in the dark. I was under a shelf, and not particularly high. I
thought if the engine quit, I'd be dead because even with a GPS, I wouldn't
have time to find the the frequency, turn on the lights, locate the airport,
etc. How nice to put in 121.5. key the mike and watch all of the lights in
the vicinity come on at the same time.

I called AOPA and ASF and they said it was a clever idea, but no one was
interested in implementing it.

WASHINGTON, Sept. 28 - An America West passenger jet taking off from Las
Vegas missed hitting an Air Canada jet by about 100 feet last Thursday
night, according to a preliminary report, because a controller in the
tower confused two planes and issued conflicting instructions.

lets see if you read the article correctly.
Aircraft A is cleared to take off
Aircraft B is cleared to take off behind Aircraft A
Aircraft B says there will be a delay
Controller cancels Aircraft B take off clearance. (Changes your lights from
red to green for the taxing aircraft)
And then Clears Aircraft C to taxi across runway while Aircraft A is still
taking off.

That's what I read.. what did you read.. I don't think your lighting
thinking will work any better.
ATC controls the lights too.. radio or lights.. no different

BT

"LWG" wrote in message
...
I can't understand why a series of stop/caution/go lights has not been
implemented at intesections of runways and taxiways. Controller clears one
aircraft for takeoff, the intersection lights go from yellow to red.
Progessive taxiing is following a series of green lights. It seems so
cheap and easy -- much easier than cleaning up the wreckage of two jets.

But that's just like another idea I had, make all runway lights respond to
VHF Guard in addition to the CTAF or other published frequency. I was
flying back near Philly one night, juggling the usual combination of
charts and pencils in the dark. I was under a shelf, and not particularly
high. I thought if the engine quit, I'd be dead because even with a GPS,
I wouldn't have time to find the the frequency, turn on the lights, locate
the airport, etc. How nice to put in 121.5. key the mike and watch all of
the lights in the vicinity come on at the same time.

I called AOPA and ASF and they said it was a clever idea, but no one was
interested in implementing it.

WASHINGTON, Sept. 28 - An America West passenger jet taking off from Las
Vegas missed hitting an Air Canada jet by about 100 feet last Thursday
night, according to a preliminary report, because a controller in the
tower confused two planes and issued conflicting instructions.

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:05:38 -0400, "LWG"
wrote in ::

I can't understand why a series of stop/caution/go lights has not been
implemented at intesections of runways and taxiways.

There is a system like that employs lights imbedded in the taxiways at
the hold bars called: Surface Movement Guidance and Control System.
http://www.gofir.com/aviation_accide...nce_system.htm

"LW" wrote in message
I can't understand why a series of stop/caution/go lights has not been
implemented at intesections of runways and taxiways. Controller clears
one
aircraft for takeoff, the intersection lights go from yellow to red.
Progessive taxiing is following a series of green lights. It seems so
cheap
and easy -- much easier than cleaning up the wreckage of two jets.

The FAA has instituted a test program similar to what you describe. So far,
the test results are disappointing.

D.

"Capt.Doug" wrote

The FAA has instituted a test program similar to what you describe. So
far,
the test results are disappointing.

Is there some way with existing technology, that a pilot could alert ground
personnel that he is on takeoff roll?

I picture some code be entered into a transponder, from the time the pilot
receives takeoff clearance, until (s)he goes wheels up, then goes back to
the assigned code. The computers and display would then clearly show the
location of the pilot, on which runway, and that he has begun rolling.
Perhaps that (in addition) could trigger the stop lights.

Could the same work for when (s)he has been given landing clearance, and is
on very short final?

Just an idea, and I'm sure there are problems, but could this, or something
like it work?
--
Jim in NC

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 00:52:51 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Capt.Doug" wrote

The FAA has instituted a test program similar to what you describe. So
far,
the test results are disappointing.

Is there some way with existing technology, that a pilot could alert ground
personnel that he is on takeoff roll?

I picture some code be entered into a transponder, from the time the pilot
receives takeoff clearance, until (s)he goes wheels up, then goes back to
the assigned code. The computers and display would then clearly show the
location of the pilot, on which runway, and that he has begun rolling.
Perhaps that (in addition) could trigger the stop lights.

Could the same work for when (s)he has been given landing clearance, and is
on very short final?

Just an idea, and I'm sure there are problems, but could this, or something
like it work?

There is something like that available, only not for aircraft. When I
was a police officer we had mobile data terminals (MDT's) in our
patrol car. A signal would go off telling us that we had an incoming
call, I hit one button to acknowledge the call, The next button I
would hit would to tell the system that I was en route. When I got to
the scene, I would hit another button that told the system I was
there. Then when I was finished, I would hit another button that
told the system I was done and that I was back in service. I could go
from call to call to call all day long without even talking on the
radio. So I could easily see this implemented in aircraft as follows:
Button one: acknowledge cleared for take off, Button two: Cleared
runway. Button fthreer: acknowledge cleared for landing. Button
four: off of active. With this incorporated into the transponder,
the system would see which transponder sent the signal and change the
lights as so required. So it could be accomplished, I would just hate
to see what the cost would be to do something like that.



Scott D.

Morgans wrote:

Is there some way with existing technology, that a pilot could alert ground
personnel that he is on takeoff roll?

I have a system that has always worked for me but would not be universal. So
far, every time I've been cleared for takeoff, I've been sitting at the
hold-short line, ready to go. When I acknowledge the takeoff clearance, I add
the word "rolling" to the end -- as in "3162 Kebec, rolling."

As I understand this situation, though, one aircraft had already been cleared
for takeoff after another one. In that case, the clearance for that aircraft
would be issued some time before the aircraft actually starts the takeoff run,
so it would not be appropriate for the pilot to say he's taking off.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.