Sudden Flat Tire

Strange thing happened to me earlier this week (monday).
I flew from home base at KUGN to KDBQ with a friend
for a quick stop and then we were planning to fly up the Mississippi
to look for some fall colors.

Had a nice clear day with light winds. So we land at DBQ, I taxi over to the
FBO for a quick pit stop. Got back in the plane, got ATIS, contacted ground and
given taxi instruction to 36. So I'm # 2 in line, just finish mag check and
now I'm # 1. Start to move forward and seemed like the pedals were hare to
steer. I quickly think I got a flat nosewheel, and shut down the engine, worried
that I might strike the prop. Anyway, contact ground told them on problem and
plane behind me says yep it is flat.

FBO sends a truck to fill the tire, but the air rushed out almost as fast as it
entered. SO we now need a tow back to FBO. 2.5 hrs later I have new tire and
tube and we are off back to KUGN. Luckily I take the old tire & tube back.
Since the plane is owned by the club I'm a member in.

The general manager said I will be reimbursed for the repair, but was curious
about the flat. I was too since the tire looked to be relatively new.
In fact it was only replaced 2 weeks prior. The problem apparently was that
some of the steel cord must have popped up through the tires sidewall and
punctured the tub. If you rub your hand over the inside you can feel the steel
wire protruding through the sidewall.

Does this kind of thing happen frequently. Did I over react by shutting down
the engine, but I was really did not want to add a prop strike
to ruin my day?

Could side load or bad landings, bouncing on the nose cause such a failure?
My landing just prior to the this occurring was fine, mains first, then slowly
down on the nose. Just curious. Also, what would happen if the tire went flat
during flight? I guess I would know the minute the nose settled on the runway.
If that happened, all I could do is hold the nose off by pulling back on the yolk.

Kevin Kubiak PP-ASEL

I can't conceive of an operational situation that would cause a steel cord
to come adrift from inside the molded rubber. This wouldn't be an issue with
the tubeless tires on your car, but I'd hate to have it happen in the air
with an aviation tire -- bad news to land on a flat you didn't know about .
.. . . Sounds like a manufacturing defect to me. Someone should have a
heart-to-heart with the tire manufacturer.

Seth


"Kevin Kubiak" wrote in message
...
Strange thing happened to me earlier this week (monday).
I flew from home base at KUGN to KDBQ with a friend
for a quick stop and then we were planning to fly up the Mississippi
to look for some fall colors.

Had a nice clear day with light winds. So we land at DBQ, I taxi over to
the
FBO for a quick pit stop. Got back in the plane, got ATIS, contacted
ground and
given taxi instruction to 36. So I'm # 2 in line, just finish mag check
and
now I'm # 1. Start to move forward and seemed like the pedals were hare
to steer. I quickly think I got a flat nosewheel, and shut down the
engine, worried
that I might strike the prop. Anyway, contact ground told them on problem
and plane behind me says yep it is flat.

FBO sends a truck to fill the tire, but the air rushed out almost as fast
as it
entered. SO we now need a tow back to FBO. 2.5 hrs later I have new
tire and tube and we are off back to KUGN. Luckily I take the old tire &
tube back. Since the plane is owned by the club I'm a member in.

The general manager said I will be reimbursed for the repair, but was
curious about the flat. I was too since the tire looked to be relatively
new.
In fact it was only replaced 2 weeks prior. The problem apparently was
that
some of the steel cord must have popped up through the tires sidewall and
punctured the tub. If you rub your hand over the inside you can feel the
steel
wire protruding through the sidewall.

Does this kind of thing happen frequently. Did I over react by shutting
down the engine, but I was really did not want to add a prop strike
to ruin my day?

Could side load or bad landings, bouncing on the nose cause such a
failure?
My landing just prior to the this occurring was fine, mains first, then
slowly
down on the nose. Just curious. Also, what would happen if the tire went
flat
during flight? I guess I would know the minute the nose settled on the
runway.
If that happened, all I could do is hold the nose off by pulling back on
the yolk.

Kevin Kubiak PP-ASEL

Thats strange. My car has run flat tires (making blow-outs impossible).
Aren't the same available for planes?

"Skylune" wrote in
lkaboutaviation.com:

Thats strange. My car has run flat tires (making blow-outs impossible).

Run-flats can blow out. The difference between them and regular tires
is that they have a stronger sidewall so that if you have you lose
pressure due to a leak or small puncture, the tire will not go so flat
as to ride on the rim. This allows you to drive a short distance at slow
speeds to get to safety and replace/repair your tire.


Aren't the same available for planes?

Someone else would have to answer that.

Brian (who knows what it's like to blow a tire at 85 mph)
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On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:05:03 -0700, "Seth Masia"
wrote:

I can't conceive of an operational situation that would cause a steel cord
to come adrift from inside the molded rubber.

I can. I was an auto mechanic for 9 years. Tires that had steel
reinforced tread could and did expose them if the tires were run at
low pressure for too long. Happened all the time. Don't see why
airplane tires wouldn't become damaged in the same manner if run with
low pressure.

The tire pressure for a Cessna 172S is 35 psi mains and 43 psi front
according to the POH. Last time I flew the rental, which was during
my biennial flight review a few weeks ago, I noticed the front tire
was low. The instructor had a pressure guage with him and admonished
me to keep one with me at all times myself. We found the front tire
was at 8 psi and both mains were around 10.

According to the CFI, land a bit cockeyed with tire pressures that low
and you could easily blow out a tire.

Corky Scott

wrote in message
...
I can. I was an auto mechanic for 9 years. Tires that had steel
reinforced tread could and did expose them if the tires were run at
low pressure for too long. Happened all the time. Don't see why
airplane tires wouldn't become damaged in the same manner if run with
low pressure.

One main reason might be the duration of operation required to cause a
problem. Airplane tires do warm up, but not nearly to the extent that an
automobile tire would. They simply aren't used for the distances and speeds
that an auto tire experiences. The heat that is the cause of failure at low
tire pressures is much less likely to become a factor for an airplane tire
than for auto tires.

[...]
According to the CFI, land a bit cockeyed with tire pressures that low
and you could easily blow out a tire.

I can believe that the tire would separate from the rim, allowing the tire
pressure to be completely relieved. Technically, that would be a "blow out"
IMHO, but it's not the same as a failure of the actual tire material.

Pete

Actually what is more common with low tire pressure is that on landing the
rubber tire "slips" on the rim during spin up.. putting pressure on the
valve stem and cutting it or wearing a hole near the valve stem.
BT


According to the CFI, land a bit cockeyed with tire pressures that low
and you could easily blow out a tire.

I can believe that the tire would separate from the rim, allowing the tire
pressure to be completely relieved. Technically, that would be a "blow
out" IMHO, but it's not the same as a failure of the actual tire material.

Pete

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:MfG3f.5812$MN6.547@fed1read04...
Actually what is more common with low tire pressure is that on landing the
rubber tire "slips" on the rim during spin up.. putting pressure on the
valve stem and cutting it or wearing a hole near the valve stem.
BT

That has been a problem with tube type tires since the days of the Model T.
It is mostly forgotten nowadays.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:21:20 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
I can. I was an auto mechanic for 9 years. Tires that had steel
reinforced tread could and did expose them if the tires were run at
low pressure for too long. Happened all the time. Don't see why
airplane tires wouldn't become damaged in the same manner if run with
low pressure.

One main reason might be the duration of operation required to cause a
problem. Airplane tires do warm up, but not nearly to the extent that an
automobile tire would. They simply aren't used for the distances and speeds
that an auto tire experiences. The heat that is the cause of failure at low
tire pressures is much less likely to become a factor for an airplane tire
than for auto tires.

You are coming up with reasonable conjectures as to why steel threads
might not work through the sidewall. The problem is the threads DID
work their way through the sidewall.

Rolling them at low pressure would flex the sidewalls more than they
are designed for.

Corky Scott

wrote in message
...
You are coming up with reasonable conjectures as to why steel threads
might not work through the sidewall. The problem is the threads DID
work their way through the sidewall.

My point is simply that absent a manufacturing defect, the usual mode of
failure due to low tire pressure doesn't apply.

Rolling them at low pressure would flex the sidewalls more than they
are designed for.

But assuming no manufacturing defect, would not result in tire failure.

Pete