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#1
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Found this and thought it might be of interest to all here
![]() Big John `````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````` DEDICATED TO ALL THOSE WHO FLEW BEHIND ROUND AIRCRAFT ENGINES We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're ruining aviation and our hearing... A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat. Anybody can start a turbine. You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start. Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a horny mistress. On some planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it... Turbines start by whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a little louder. Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks, a lot more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's a GUY thing... When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting a turbine is like flicking of a ceiling fan: Useful, but, hardly exciting. When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew Chief looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too! Turbines don't break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom, complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind ! Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights. Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Round engines smell like God intended machines to smell. Pass this on to an old WWII guy (or his son, or anyone who flew them, ever) in remembrance of that "Greatest Generation". |
#2
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There's a "nickname number" we gave to those of us who flew round engines
for any length of time. You could be a 2800 guy, or you could be a 6150 guy if you had R2800 and 3350 time. The REALLY "hot" guys were the 10510 guys. They had flown the 2800, the 3350, AND the 4360's. If you could START a 4360, you got honorable mention :-))))) Dudley Henriques "Big John" wrote in message ... Found this and thought it might be of interest to all here ![]() Big John `````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````` DEDICATED TO ALL THOSE WHO FLEW BEHIND ROUND AIRCRAFT ENGINES We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're ruining aviation and our hearing... A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat. Anybody can start a turbine. You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start. Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a horny mistress. On some planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it... Turbines start by whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a little louder. Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks, a lot more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's a GUY thing... When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting a turbine is like flicking of a ceiling fan: Useful, but, hardly exciting. When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew Chief looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too! Turbines don't break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom, complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind ! Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights. Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Round engines smell like God intended machines to smell. Pass this on to an old WWII guy (or his son, or anyone who flew them, ever) in remembrance of that "Greatest Generation". |
#3
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Dudley
Those were the good old days but we only realize it now ![]() The biggest I fired up was the R2800 (P-47D). Looking back I think I remember it sounded like a 'Harly Hog' today for those who haven't heard one start and run. Hundreds of hours behind a R1340. Big John `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````` On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:29:08 GMT, "Dudley Henriques" wrote: There's a "nickname number" we gave to those of us who flew round engines for any length of time. You could be a 2800 guy, or you could be a 6150 guy if you had R2800 and 3350 time. The REALLY "hot" guys were the 10510 guys. They had flown the 2800, the 3350, AND the 4360's. If you could START a 4360, you got honorable mention :-))))) Dudley Henriques "Big John" wrote in message .. . Found this and thought it might be of interest to all here ![]() Big John `````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````` DEDICATED TO ALL THOSE WHO FLEW BEHIND ROUND AIRCRAFT ENGINES We gotta get rid of those turbines, they're ruining aviation and our hearing... A turbine is too simple minded, it has no mystery. The air travels through it in a straight line and doesn't pick up any of the pungent fragrance of engine oil or pilot sweat. Anybody can start a turbine. You just need to move a switch from "OFF" to "START" and then remember to move it back to "ON" after a while. My PC is harder to start. Cranking a round engine requires skill, finesse and style. You have to seduce it into starting. It's like waking up a horny mistress. On some planes, the pilots aren't even allowed to do it... Turbines start by whining for a while, then give a lady-like poof and start whining a little louder. Round engines give a satisfying rattle-rattle, click-click, BANG, more rattles, another BANG, a big macho FART or two, more clicks, a lot more smoke and finally a serious low pitched roar. We like that. It's a GUY thing... When you start a round engine, your mind is engaged and you can concentrate on the flight ahead. Starting a turbine is like flicking of a ceiling fan: Useful, but, hardly exciting. When you have started his round engine successfully your Crew Chief looks up at you like he'd let you kiss his girl, too! Turbines don't break or catch fire often enough, which leads to aircrew boredom, complacency and inattention. A round engine at speed looks and sounds like it's going to blow any minute. This helps concentrate the mind ! Turbines don't have enough control levers or gauges to keep a pilot's attention. There's nothing to fiddle with during long flights. Turbines smell like a Boy Scout camp full of Coleman Lamps. Round engines smell like God intended machines to smell. Pass this on to an old WWII guy (or his son, or anyone who flew them, ever) in remembrance of that "Greatest Generation". |
#4
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![]() "Big John" wrote in message ... Dudley Those were the good old days but we only realize it now ![]() The biggest I fired up was the R2800 (P-47D). Looking back I think I remember it sounded like a 'Harly Hog' today for those who haven't heard one start and run. Hundreds of hours behind a R1340. Big John I have a few hours in the Jug (N) and some time in the Bearcat. Preferred the 51 for show work, but the cat was a real ride coming off the deck with some excess power to convert :-)) Never flew the 4360, but I had a friend who had one in his Corsair. He used to laugh like hell when he told me that it sometimes took him more time to get it started than it did to make the flight he started it for. I've always wondered what the hell everybody thought was so damn hard about flying the jets. That little list of humor you posted is just about right on. In the T38, you climb in; push the start buttons and watch the temps rise, then you point it where you want it to go and hang on. (of course it helps if you actually HAVE it pointed where you want it to go when you hit the burners :-). You can fly the T38 all day long without touching the rudder pedals, and that includes aerobatics!! It's great to be able to look back on all that fun. :-))) Dudley |
#5
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Dudley
Guess you never flew the P-80 A/B? The boost pump was the main fuel pump from the P-59. Was a monster that pulled something like 20+ amps. Once you got an indication of TPT you used both hands and pulled the throttle back just into edge of idle cut off and then pushed out to the idle position. This cycling let you keep the TPT from exceeding limits as engine spooled up to idle. As the RPM rose you reached a point where the starter dropped out and the TPT kept staying in limits without cycling the throttle and as RPM stabilized in idle you also had the idle TPT. Flying that early small engine (3850 lbs thrust), if you had to go around in the pattern it took over 20 seconds from idle to full power. Really had to stay ahead of bird in pattern. Lot of 51/47 jocks checking out had trouble with this. Shut down was easy. Let idle for a minute or two to stabilize temps and then go to idle cut off and clean cockpit up. At Willie (first jet school) we had the 'Captive Air'. This was a P-80A mounted on supports (concrete/steel) with gear not touching ground. This trainer let us put a student in cockpit and standing on wing talk him through an engine start and simulated flight. (Start engine and then cycle gear and flaps like would happen on a real flight.) Last time I was at Willie for a reunion (they then had T-38's) the Captive Air facility across the field had been torn down and not saved for posterity ![]() Been a long time since I thought about the early jets. We killed at least one student a month and a instructor every quarter at Willie when we started student jet training for Korea. Big John `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````` On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:29:53 GMT, "Dudley Henriques" wrote: "Big John" wrote in message .. . Dudley Those were the good old days but we only realize it now ![]() The biggest I fired up was the R2800 (P-47D). Looking back I think I remember it sounded like a 'Harly Hog' today for those who haven't heard one start and run. Hundreds of hours behind a R1340. Big John I have a few hours in the Jug (N) and some time in the Bearcat. Preferred the 51 for show work, but the cat was a real ride coming off the deck with some excess power to convert :-)) Never flew the 4360, but I had a friend who had one in his Corsair. He used to laugh like hell when he told me that it sometimes took him more time to get it started than it did to make the flight he started it for. I've always wondered what the hell everybody thought was so damn hard about flying the jets. That little list of humor you posted is just about right on. In the T38, you climb in; push the start buttons and watch the temps rise, then you point it where you want it to go and hang on. (of course it helps if you actually HAVE it pointed where you want it to go when you hit the burners :-). You can fly the T38 all day long without touching the rudder pedals, and that includes aerobatics!! It's great to be able to look back on all that fun. :-))) Dudley |
#6
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Hi John;
Never flew the P80, but I remember those early days during the transition period from props to jets quite well. The loss rates were high as a kite as you have stated. But I'll bet you'll agree that in spite of it all, Willie and Luke were the places to be in those days.:-)) Starting those early jets J33's, J47's etc really kept you guys on your toes balancing throttle and temps. Phrases like "bringing it around the horn" and "hot start" were quite commonly heard on the flight line back then and hardly heard any more. By contrast, the T38 is a "push to start" "go fast" buggy. :-) Putting a bird on a stand and running it was a great idea, although I remember the day Scott Crossfield blew the tail off the X15 at Edwards doing an engine testbed ground test on the XLR99 engine. He said it was quite funny really. They put him in the bird and everybody else went into the blockhouse. They called it "developing the confidence of the pilot" :-) When it blew, the front half of the airplane actually flew forward off the stand about 20 feet. I always said, Crossfield should have logged the time! :-)) Dudley "Big John" wrote in message ... Dudley Guess you never flew the P-80 A/B? The boost pump was the main fuel pump from the P-59. Was a monster that pulled something like 20+ amps. Once you got an indication of TPT you used both hands and pulled the throttle back just into edge of idle cut off and then pushed out to the idle position. This cycling let you keep the TPT from exceeding limits as engine spooled up to idle. As the RPM rose you reached a point where the starter dropped out and the TPT kept staying in limits without cycling the throttle and as RPM stabilized in idle you also had the idle TPT. Flying that early small engine (3850 lbs thrust), if you had to go around in the pattern it took over 20 seconds from idle to full power. Really had to stay ahead of bird in pattern. Lot of 51/47 jocks checking out had trouble with this. Shut down was easy. Let idle for a minute or two to stabilize temps and then go to idle cut off and clean cockpit up. At Willie (first jet school) we had the 'Captive Air'. This was a P-80A mounted on supports (concrete/steel) with gear not touching ground. This trainer let us put a student in cockpit and standing on wing talk him through an engine start and simulated flight. (Start engine and then cycle gear and flaps like would happen on a real flight.) Last time I was at Willie for a reunion (they then had T-38's) the Captive Air facility across the field had been torn down and not saved for posterity ![]() Been a long time since I thought about the early jets. We killed at least one student a month and a instructor every quarter at Willie when we started student jet training for Korea. Big John `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````` On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:29:53 GMT, "Dudley Henriques" wrote: "Big John" wrote in message . .. Dudley Those were the good old days but we only realize it now ![]() The biggest I fired up was the R2800 (P-47D). Looking back I think I remember it sounded like a 'Harly Hog' today for those who haven't heard one start and run. Hundreds of hours behind a R1340. Big John I have a few hours in the Jug (N) and some time in the Bearcat. Preferred the 51 for show work, but the cat was a real ride coming off the deck with some excess power to convert :-)) Never flew the 4360, but I had a friend who had one in his Corsair. He used to laugh like hell when he told me that it sometimes took him more time to get it started than it did to make the flight he started it for. I've always wondered what the hell everybody thought was so damn hard about flying the jets. That little list of humor you posted is just about right on. In the T38, you climb in; push the start buttons and watch the temps rise, then you point it where you want it to go and hang on. (of course it helps if you actually HAVE it pointed where you want it to go when you hit the burners :-). You can fly the T38 all day long without touching the rudder pedals, and that includes aerobatics!! It's great to be able to look back on all that fun. :-))) Dudley |
#7
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On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:00:22 -0600, Big John
wrote: Dudley Those were the good old days but we only realize it now ![]() The biggest I fired up was the R2800 (P-47D). Looking back I think I remember it sounded like a 'Harly Hog' today for those who haven't heard one start and run. snip Had a biker walk into the hangar one day looking for some "airplane oil" for his Hog. Asked him if he wanted 40 or 50 weight, detergent, or not. While he was thinking about it, he was checking out a R-985 hanging on one of our E-18S's. "could I put a couple of those on my bike?" "if you did, it would be darn near a 220." "whoa." TC |
#8
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"Dudley Henriques" wrote
There's a "nickname number" we gave to those of us who flew round engines for any length of time. I'm a 5170 guy. R-1820 S-2F, R-3350 P-2V Bob Moore |
#9
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![]() "Bob Moore" wrote in message . 121... "Dudley Henriques" wrote There's a "nickname number" we gave to those of us who flew round engines for any length of time. I'm a 5170 guy. R-1820 S-2F, R-3350 P-2V Bob Moore The Navy put all the smarter people in Vikings and Neptunes. All the fighter pilots mothers' told them never to hang out or to drink with you people. It was possible that the smartness could rub off and if that happened, they could lose their fighter slot and get themselves transferred up to a multi-engine outfit !!! :-)) Dudley Henriques |
#10
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"Dudley Henriques" wrote
The Navy put all the smarter people in Vikings and Neptunes. How about "Trackers" and Neptunes? :-) Bob |
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