Tstorm avoidance

I have a fairly new IFR rating and am wondering how much help to
expect from ATC on Tstorm avoidance. Will they suggest re-routing or
do you have to request it based on visual, FSS, or stormscope
location?

"PaulH" wrote in message
om...
I have a fairly new IFR rating and am wondering how much help to
expect from ATC on Tstorm avoidance. Will they suggest re-routing or
do you have to request it based on visual, FSS, or stormscope
location?

Varies day to day, but you should not _expect_ TS avoidance. First, ATC has
limited equipment to see TS's. Second, their first responsibility is terrain
and traffic separation - your avoidance of storms is definitely a secondary
concern (same goes for icing, by the way).

You can always request rerouting, or just a simple diversion ("Center, 6RP
would like 10 degrees right for 10 minutes for weather", or something like
that.) You are rarely denied either if weather is unsafe. But ultimately it
is your call, and you should expect to have to cancel IFR at some point to
have the freedom to avoid weather. Of course, if you are in IMC, you can
declare an emergency if weather constraints absolutely require it. I have
done this in icing conditions. There have been many debates over whether you
will get in trouble for doing this on this newsgroup. My experience was
that, other than showing concern for my safe passage through the weather,
ATC had no other issues with the emergency declaration.

You cannot expect thunderstorm avoidance from ATC. IT IS YOUR
RESPONSIBILITY.
How much help depends on the individual controller. Having some weather
equipment is a great help. A strike finder or equivalent is your best
first line of defense. They are best a giving azimuth not usually great
on range. A strong storm far away will appear closer than it it is. Good
situational awareness of current position and direction and weather
location and direction are your best line of defense.

Michelle

Michael 182 wrote:

"PaulH" wrote in message
. com...


I have a fairly new IFR rating and am wondering how much help to
expect from ATC on Tstorm avoidance. Will they suggest re-routing or
do you have to request it based on visual, FSS, or stormscope
location?



Varies day to day, but you should not _expect_ TS avoidance. First, ATC has
limited equipment to see TS's. Second, their first responsibility is terrain
and traffic separation - your avoidance of storms is definitely a secondary
concern (same goes for icing, by the way).

You can always request rerouting, or just a simple diversion ("Center, 6RP
would like 10 degrees right for 10 minutes for weather", or something like
that.) You are rarely denied either if weather is unsafe. But ultimately it
is your call, and you should expect to have to cancel IFR at some point to
have the freedom to avoid weather. Of course, if you are in IMC, you can
declare an emergency if weather constraints absolutely require it. I have
done this in icing conditions. There have been many debates over whether you
will get in trouble for doing this on this newsgroup. My experience was
that, other than showing concern for my safe passage through the weather,
ATC had no other issues with the emergency declaration.





--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

Michelle P ) wrote:

. Having some weather equipment is a great help.

And don't forget the excellent resources at Flight Watch or Flight Service
(if flying in the US). Within minutes of leveling off, I am in the habit
of contacting Flight Watch/Service for updates on all cell activity that
may impact my route and for recommended deviations.

Back on ATC frequency, I note deviation requests of other aircraft who have
onboard radar and to ATC reroute clearances. This is also helpful in
understanding where the current weather is. If the frequency is not too
busy, I ask ATC if aircraft ahead of me are deviating.

--
Peter












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"Michelle P" wrote in message
link.net...
A strike finder or equivalent is your best
first line of defense. They are best a giving azimuth not usually great
on range.

Yes...it detects "intensity", not range. If anything, it's "range" is more a
metaphor.

A strong storm far away will appear closer than it it is.

And this is very much a "good thing".

(PaulH) wrote
I have a fairly new IFR rating and am wondering how much help to
expect from ATC on Tstorm avoidance. Will they suggest re-routing or
do you have to request it based on visual, FSS, or stormscope
location?

My experience is that this varies dramatically.

Sometimes, you get a controller who really knows his **** and really
cares about you - he wants to know if it's OK to vector you over water
to less covective areas, will use his RADAR to vector you around
cells, will solicit information from better-equipped aircraft, and
will generally do everything he can to get you where you are going
safely.

Sometimes you get a controller who won't give you more than 2 minutes
off frequency to contact Fligh****ch (and if the weather is bad, that
won't be enough), will flatly tell you he's not painting any weather
(without telling you that he's not painting it because he turned it
off to declutter his display), and will even vector you off course and
right into a cell.

I have actually heard a controller say after he was queried by a pilot
about weather up ahead "Oh, yeah - that's a Level 4. You can deviate
around it if you need to."

A lot of this has to do with airspace congestion. Most of the people
flying when there are embedded T-storms around have some sort of
weather avoidance (Spherics or RADAR) on board, and are deviating
around the areas of bad weather. Controllers rarely if ever deny such
deviation requests (maybe because they know that most experienced IFR
pilots will simply declare an emergency and deviate anyway) but this
leaves them with traffic congestion in the good areas and an increased
workload. When a controller in such a situation gets overloaded,
where do you think he's going to send you?

Face it - if you're going to fly IMC when there are T-storms around,
you need some sort of weather avoidance gear. Relying on ATC is not a
realistic option.

Michael

"Michael" wrote in message
om...

Face it - if you're going to fly IMC when there are T-storms around,
you need some sort of weather avoidance gear. Relying on ATC is not a
realistic option.

It's not an option PERIOD.

I shudder to think Michael is in the same skies as myself the rest of us.

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 22:52:16 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:


"Michael" wrote in message
. com...

Face it - if you're going to fly IMC when there are T-storms around,
you need some sort of weather avoidance gear. Relying on ATC is not a
realistic option.

It's not an option PERIOD.

I shudder to think Michael is in the same skies as myself the rest of us.

Why? Michael flies a Twin Comanche equipped with Stormscope. Seems
like a pretty capable setup for dodging tstorms.

"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 22:52:16 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:


"Michael" wrote in message
. com...

Face it - if you're going to fly IMC when there are T-storms around,
you need some sort of weather avoidance gear. Relying on ATC is not a
realistic option.

It's not an option PERIOD.

I shudder to think Michael is in the same skies as myself the rest of us.

Why? Michael flies a Twin Comanche equipped with Stormscope. Seems
like a pretty capable setup for dodging tstorms.

Equipment is neither knowledge, nor judgment.

Re-read his original and how he interprets how ATC handles such requests.

Tom Sixkiller ) wrote:

"Michael" wrote in message
om...

Face it - if you're going to fly IMC when there are T-storms around,
you need some sort of weather avoidance gear. Relying on ATC is not a
realistic option.

It's not an option PERIOD.

HUH? "Not a realistic option" "not an option PERIOD" ???

What am I missing that I interpret those two phrases as more similar than
different?

I shudder to think Michael is in the same skies as myself the rest of us.

I do not understand how you could judge someone's abilities based on your
subtle differences in interpretation.

To me, newsgroup proclamations such as yours speak more about your ego than
anything else.


--
Peter












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