Cell phones on GA aircraft

I know the FCC says you're not supposed to use cell phones on an
aircraft (even though recent studies show that such use does not
overload multiple base stations, as the FCC originally feared).
However, has anyone tried it on small aircraft? There is some concern
about cell phones interfering with avionics on commercial airliners
(the jury is still out for most scenarios), but I don't know if the
phones make any difference on a small plane. I suppose it depends on
how much of a glass cockpit you have. Will anyone admit to using
phones on a GA aircraft?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
I know the FCC says you're not supposed to use cell phones on an
aircraft

Actually, the FCC only says that for certain wireless phone
services. Not all of them have that prohibition written in
the regs.

(even though recent studies show that such use does not
overload multiple base stations, as the FCC originally feared).

It's less of a problem now that we've moved away from the original
AMPS (analog) cellular phone. However, the study you are probably
thinking about doesn't say what you are proposing. It is talking
about the Aircell guys identifying that THEIR airborne use (which
is not standard cellular) doesn't cause any untoward interference
to the ground based systems on the same frequency.

However, has anyone tried it on small aircraft?

The problem is that it doesn't work. Once we went to much fancier
digital systems and antenna systems designed to really pack in the
density, trying to hit them from over 1000 feet just doesn't work.

Handheld cell phones have never put out more than 850mw when
operating at high power (and they would use much less in
a plane) and the modern digital ones put out even a fraction of that.
It's unlikely that avionics would suffer much.

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:27:04 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote:
I know the FCC says you're not supposed to use cell phones on an
aircraft

Actually, the FCC only says that for certain wireless phone
services. Not all of them have that prohibition written in
the regs.

However, has anyone tried it on small aircraft?

The problem is that it doesn't work. Once we went to much fancier
digital systems and antenna systems designed to really pack in the
density, trying to hit them from over 1000 feet just doesn't work.

Handheld cell phones have never put out more than 850mw when
operating at high power (and they would use much less in
a plane) and the modern digital ones put out even a fraction of that.
It's unlikely that avionics would suffer much.

I once called my favorite CFII to make an appointment. When she
answered the phone, there was a lot of background noise but we could
still converse. She was talking to me on her cell phone while she was
instructing. Obviously, it can work.

Of course that was most likely at relatively low altitude in the
practice area, near civilization. Many areas where I fly there's no
cell coverage at all, on the ground or otherwise. A look at the
service provider's coverage map tells the story. Much of the area is
RF wilderness.

RK Henry

RK Henry wrote in
:

Of course that was most likely at relatively low altitude in the
practice area, near civilization. Many areas where I fly there's no
cell coverage at all, on the ground or otherwise. A look at the
service provider's coverage map tells the story. Much of the area is
RF wilderness.

Actually, I have found my cell phone to work better in God's country then
over civilization. Less cell towers to hit on to confuse the phone is my
guess.

My experiences is that the higher you go, the less reliability you get.
For me, seems that 6000 AGL is the point where the reliablity decrease
substantially. Other then my own experiences, nothing to back up to the
reasons why.

Allen

I've called people from about 6000 ft. This was back in the days of
TDMA. Now that I'm on CDMA it's harder. I did send an e-mail from
about 8000 ft. the other day.

--Dan


RK Henry wrote:
On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:27:04 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote:
I know the FCC says you're not supposed to use cell phones on an
aircraft

Actually, the FCC only says that for certain wireless phone
services. Not all of them have that prohibition written in
the regs.

However, has anyone tried it on small aircraft?

The problem is that it doesn't work. Once we went to much fancier
digital systems and antenna systems designed to really pack in the
density, trying to hit them from over 1000 feet just doesn't work.

Handheld cell phones have never put out more than 850mw when
operating at high power (and they would use much less in
a plane) and the modern digital ones put out even a fraction of that.
It's unlikely that avionics would suffer much.

I once called my favorite CFII to make an appointment. When she
answered the phone, there was a lot of background noise but we could
still converse. She was talking to me on her cell phone while she was
instructing. Obviously, it can work.

Of course that was most likely at relatively low altitude in the
practice area, near civilization. Many areas where I fly there's no
cell coverage at all, on the ground or otherwise. A look at the
service provider's coverage map tells the story. Much of the area is
RF wilderness.

RK Henry

RK Henry wrote:
snip

I once called my favorite CFII to make an appointment. When she
answered the phone, there was a lot of background noise but we could
still converse. She was talking to me on her cell phone while she was
instructing. Obviously, it can work.

I used to work with an instructor who would routinely conduct business
on his cell while instructing (yes, he had other issues). But like you
said, this was at low altitude in the practice area, very near multiple
towers. Reception was not a problem.

I suppose it doesn't count in this discussion, but balloons are
aircraft. Cell phones work fine and are more reliable than either
ordinary VHF radios or CB radios. Typically we are at tree tops, 100 to
say, 500 feet. I figure people are allowed to use cell phones in tall
buildings and easily hit these altitudes.


Ron Natalie wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
I know the FCC says you're not supposed to use cell phones on an
aircraft

Actually, the FCC only says that for certain wireless phone
services. Not all of them have that prohibition written in
the regs.

(even though recent studies show that such use does not
overload multiple base stations, as the FCC originally feared).

It's less of a problem now that we've moved away from the original
AMPS (analog) cellular phone. However, the study you are probably
thinking about doesn't say what you are proposing. It is talking
about the Aircell guys identifying that THEIR airborne use (which
is not standard cellular) doesn't cause any untoward interference
to the ground based systems on the same frequency.

However, has anyone tried it on small aircraft?

The problem is that it doesn't work. Once we went to much fancier
digital systems and antenna systems designed to really pack in the
density, trying to hit them from over 1000 feet just doesn't work.

Handheld cell phones have never put out more than 850mw when
operating at high power (and they would use much less in
a plane) and the modern digital ones put out even a fraction of that.
It's unlikely that avionics would suffer much.

The FCC and the FAA have rules. The FAA is concerned with
any electronic device interfering with the aircraft nav or
comm systems,. The FCC is concerned about a cellphone
blocking hundreds of cell towers on the ground.

Using Your Wireless Phone on Airplanes FCC rules currently
ban cell phone use after a plane has taken off because of
.... and other wireless devices aboard aircraft remain
subject to the rules and ...
www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/cellonplanes.html -
17k - Cached - Similar pages


[PDF] The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is
considering ... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as
HTML
FCC rules currently ban cell phone use after a plane
.... phone use because of potential interference to
navigation and aircraft systems. The FCC has ...
www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/cellonplanes.pdf -
Similar pages


Cell Phones On Aircraft: Nuisance Or Necessity? Even if the
FCC finalizes its proposed rule lifting its ban on aircraft
cell phone use, the FAA has no intention to lift its
long-standing ban on the use of ...
http://www.house.gov/transportation/...15-05memo.html
- 24k - Cached - Similar pages


Opposition To Cell Phones On Aircraft Washington, DC - A
proposed Federal Communications Commission (FCC) rule to ...
any change to the existing ban on aircraft cell phone use
would require the ...
http://www.house.gov/transportation/...release90.html
- 11k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.house.gov ]


Mobile phones on aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The cellphone calls are routed via the on-board SATCOM to
the ground network and ... telephones while this aircraft is
airborne is prohibited by FCC rules. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_on_aircraft -
24k - Cached - Similar pages


Aviation International News | Cellphones a real threat to an
....

"Stubby" wrote in
message . ..
|I suppose it doesn't count in this discussion, but balloons
are
| aircraft. Cell phones work fine and are more reliable
than either
| ordinary VHF radios or CB radios. Typically we are at
tree tops, 100 to
| say, 500 feet. I figure people are allowed to use cell
phones in tall
| buildings and easily hit these altitudes.
|
|
| Ron Natalie wrote:
| Mxsmanic wrote:
| I know the FCC says you're not supposed to use cell
phones on an
| aircraft
|
| Actually, the FCC only says that for certain wireless
phone
| services. Not all of them have that prohibition written
in
| the regs.
|
| (even though recent studies show that such use does not
| overload multiple base stations, as the FCC originally
feared).
|
| It's less of a problem now that we've moved away from
the original
| AMPS (analog) cellular phone. However, the study you
are probably
| thinking about doesn't say what you are proposing. It
is talking
| about the Aircell guys identifying that THEIR airborne
use (which
| is not standard cellular) doesn't cause any untoward
interference
| to the ground based systems on the same frequency.
|
| However, has anyone tried it on small aircraft?
|
| The problem is that it doesn't work. Once we went to
much fancier
| digital systems and antenna systems designed to really
pack in the
| density, trying to hit them from over 1000 feet just
doesn't work.
|
| Handheld cell phones have never put out more than 850mw
when
| operating at high power (and they would use much less in
| a plane) and the modern digital ones put out even a
fraction of that.
| It's unlikely that avionics would suffer much.

Note the confusion between "airplanes" and "aircraft". The former
excludes helos, balloons and gliders. The latter includes them. I'm
uncertain where people in tall buildings appear.




Jim Macklin wrote:
The FCC and the FAA have rules. The FAA is concerned with
any electronic device interfering with the aircraft nav or
comm systems,. The FCC is concerned about a cellphone
blocking hundreds of cell towers on the ground.

Using Your Wireless Phone on Airplanes FCC rules currently
ban cell phone use after a plane has taken off because of
... and other wireless devices aboard aircraft remain
subject to the rules and ...
www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/cellonplanes.html -
17k - Cached - Similar pages


[PDF] The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is
considering ... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as
HTML
FCC rules currently ban cell phone use after a plane
... phone use because of potential interference to
navigation and aircraft systems. The FCC has ...
www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/cellonplanes.pdf -
Similar pages


Cell Phones On Aircraft: Nuisance Or Necessity? Even if the
FCC finalizes its proposed rule lifting its ban on aircraft
cell phone use, the FAA has no intention to lift its
long-standing ban on the use of ...
http://www.house.gov/transportation/...15-05memo.html
- 24k - Cached - Similar pages


Opposition To Cell Phones On Aircraft Washington, DC - A
proposed Federal Communications Commission (FCC) rule to ...
any change to the existing ban on aircraft cell phone use
would require the ...
http://www.house.gov/transportation/...release90.html
- 11k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.house.gov ]


Mobile phones on aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The cellphone calls are routed via the on-board SATCOM to
the ground network and ... telephones while this aircraft is
airborne is prohibited by FCC rules. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_on_aircraft -
24k - Cached - Similar pages


Aviation International News | Cellphones a real threat to an
...

"Stubby" wrote in
message . ..
|I suppose it doesn't count in this discussion, but balloons
are
| aircraft. Cell phones work fine and are more reliable
than either
| ordinary VHF radios or CB radios. Typically we are at
tree tops, 100 to
| say, 500 feet. I figure people are allowed to use cell
phones in tall
| buildings and easily hit these altitudes.
|
|
| Ron Natalie wrote:
| Mxsmanic wrote:
| I know the FCC says you're not supposed to use cell
phones on an
| aircraft
|
| Actually, the FCC only says that for certain wireless
phone
| services. Not all of them have that prohibition written
in
| the regs.
|
| (even though recent studies show that such use does not
| overload multiple base stations, as the FCC originally
feared).
|
| It's less of a problem now that we've moved away from
the original
| AMPS (analog) cellular phone. However, the study you
are probably
| thinking about doesn't say what you are proposing. It
is talking
| about the Aircell guys identifying that THEIR airborne
use (which
| is not standard cellular) doesn't cause any untoward
interference
| to the ground based systems on the same frequency.
|
| However, has anyone tried it on small aircraft?
|
| The problem is that it doesn't work. Once we went to
much fancier
| digital systems and antenna systems designed to really
pack in the
| density, trying to hit them from over 1000 feet just
doesn't work.
|
| Handheld cell phones have never put out more than 850mw
when
| operating at high power (and they would use much less in
| a plane) and the modern digital ones put out even a
fraction of that.
| It's unlikely that avionics would suffer much.

Modern GSM phones don't seem to get any coverage at altitude. When I
had my CDMA phone I could send emails when I flow over populated areas.
Now, nothing.

-Robert


Mxsmanic wrote:
I know the FCC says you're not supposed to use cell phones on an
aircraft (even though recent studies show that such use does not
overload multiple base stations, as the FCC originally feared).
However, has anyone tried it on small aircraft? There is some concern
about cell phones interfering with avionics on commercial airliners
(the jury is still out for most scenarios), but I don't know if the
phones make any difference on a small plane. I suppose it depends on
how much of a glass cockpit you have. Will anyone admit to using
phones on a GA aircraft?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.