Safety pilot "flight time"

When logging safety pilot time, what do you put under the "duration of
flight" column? For example, say I'm flying with a friend who is
wearing a hood. We decided I'll be responsible for the flight before
hand. I can log PIC for the time the other person had the hood on, and
under the "total flight time" column, put the same as the PIC/when he
was wearing the hood?

Someone told me once if the person wore the hood most of the flight,
you could log the "flight time" for the entire flight, because you were
a required crew member. But once he takes it off though, you aren't
required...so I'm thinking it's the same as the PIC time.

Second in command time, only a CFI can log PIC when they are
not actually sole manipulator of the controls.

Be honest, you are only required while the hood is on.



"kevmor" wrote in message
ups.com...
| When logging safety pilot time, what do you put under the
"duration of
| flight" column? For example, say I'm flying with a friend
who is
| wearing a hood. We decided I'll be responsible for the
flight before
| hand. I can log PIC for the time the other person had the
hood on, and
| under the "total flight time" column, put the same as the
PIC/when he
| was wearing the hood?
|
| Someone told me once if the person wore the hood most of
the flight,
| you could log the "flight time" for the entire flight,
because you were
| a required crew member. But once he takes it off though,
you aren't
| required...so I'm thinking it's the same as the PIC time.
|

Jim Macklin wrote:
Second in command time, only a CFI can log PIC when they are
not actually sole manipulator of the controls.

Be honest, you are only required while the hood is on.

You can log PIC, instructor or not, any time you are either acting as
PIC, or the sole manipulator of the controls.

Anyway, it's your logbook, you can write anything you want to in it.
It's only when you want to use your logbook as evidence of experience
for a job or rating application that it matters.

Personally, I don't log time I spend as a safety pilot, but you
certainly may, either as

[PIC if you are acting as PIC], or as

[SIC if you're not PIC but a required crewmember since the PIC is using
a view restricting device].

Dave Butler wrote:
Jim Macklin wrote:
Second in command time, only a CFI can log PIC when they are not
actually sole manipulator of the controls.

Be honest, you are only required while the hood is on.

You can log PIC, instructor or not, any time you are either acting as
PIC, or the sole manipulator of the controls.
Incorrect.

61.56 is pretty clear. The instructor doesn't need to act as PIC
to log PIC, just to give instruction.

An ATP can log PIC when acting as PIC.

A private or better pilot can log PIC time when acting as PIC
in an operation requiring more than one pilot under the aircraft
certification or under the rules under which the flight was conducted.

Now the latter was probably done with Part 135/121 operations in
mind, but the FAA has affirmed that simulated instrument flight
IS indeed a more-than-one-pilot-required operation.

Ron Natalie wrote:
Dave Butler wrote:

You can log PIC, instructor or not, any time you are either acting as
PIC, or the sole manipulator of the controls.

Incorrect.

Hmm, Ron, you are usually precise in your statements, but, assuming you
meant 61.51 below, I don't see anything that contradicts my statement.


61.56 is pretty clear. The instructor doesn't need to act as PIC
to log PIC, just to give instruction.

Did you mean 61.51?


An ATP can log PIC when acting as PIC.

A private or better pilot can log PIC time when acting as PIC
in an operation requiring more than one pilot under the aircraft
certification or under the rules under which the flight was conducted.

Now the latter was probably done with Part 135/121 operations in
mind, but the FAA has affirmed that simulated instrument flight
IS indeed a more-than-one-pilot-required operation.

Dave Butler wrote:
Ron Natalie wrote:
Dave Butler wrote:

You can log PIC, instructor or not, any time you are either acting as
PIC, or the sole manipulator of the controls.

Incorrect.

Hmm, Ron, you are usually precise in your statements, but, assuming you
meant 61.51 below, I don't see anything that contradicts my statement.

Where in 61.51 does it say anybody (instructor or not) can log PIC
because they are acting as PIC? There are two specific instances
(ATP and multipilot operation). Otherwise you have to meet one of
the other requirements.

A safety pilot just looks out the window and can only log
SIC, they are a required crewmember/observer, but rarely
actually even touch the controls, almost never sole
manipulator.


"Dave Butler" wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| Second in command time, only a CFI can log PIC when they
are
| not actually sole manipulator of the controls.
|
| Be honest, you are only required while the hood is on.
|
| You can log PIC, instructor or not, any time you are
either acting as
| PIC, or the sole manipulator of the controls.
|
| Anyway, it's your logbook, you can write anything you want
to in it.
| It's only when you want to use your logbook as evidence of
experience
| for a job or rating application that it matters.
|
| Personally, I don't log time I spend as a safety pilot,
but you
| certainly may, either as
|
| [PIC if you are acting as PIC], or as
|
| [SIC if you're not PIC but a required crewmember since the
PIC is using
| a view restricting device].

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:15:52 -0600, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

A safety pilot just looks out the window and can only log
SIC, they are a required crewmember/observer, but rarely
actually even touch the controls, almost never sole
manipulator.

If they are required, and acting as PIC, there is no requirement for them
to be the sole manipulator.

This is according to both FAA regulations and written interpretations from
the FAA lawyers.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:20:51 -0500, Dave Butler wrote:

You can log PIC, instructor or not, any time you are either acting as
PIC, or the sole manipulator of the controls.

For Part 91 flights, the non-instructor must be PIC on a flight which
requires two flight crew members if he is not the sole manipulator.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:20:51 -0500, Dave Butler wrote:

You can log PIC, instructor or not, any time you are either acting as
PIC, or the sole manipulator of the controls.

For Part 91 flights, the non-instructor must be PIC on a flight which
requires two flight crew members if he is not the sole manipulator.

That is correct. My statement was in the context of a question about
safety-piloting (a flight which requires two flight crew members) and in
the context of a reply to a specific posting that claimed you had to be
an instructor to log PIC if you weren't manipulating the controls. I
didn't spell out all the restrictions because I thought it was clear
from the context.

In the future I will respond to questions of this kind by just saying
"read 61.51". Actually that's still a pretty good answer. There's a lot
of misinformation in this thread that can be cleared up in a few seconds
spent reading 61.51.