Directional control after touchdown...

I've got a question for the group. Suppose you find yourself in the
following situation:

You are flying a C182, landing on runway 22. The ATIS lists the winds
as 240 at 10. The windsock is not visible.

You approach at a normal airspeed, full flaps, coming over the numbers
at 65 kts. The mains touchdown, followed by the nosegear. Slight
right aileron is being maintained into the wind. Everything is
aligned properly and on the centerline at touchdown.

After touchdown the plane starts to drift to the right side of the
runway. You try to correct by pointing the nose back to the
centerline with left rudder. The nose seems to be pointed left, but
the plane is still drifting right. It feels like any more left rudder
could result in bad skidding and/or a ground loop.

What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation?

Left aileron would be in the _opposite_ direction of the indicated
crosswind. Increasing back pressure would make the nosewheel even
less effective.

--Dan

you've got the right idea, you want to get the nose gear onto the
runway as soon as possible, for wind like that you can center the
ailerons, you only really need continous input when theres a strong
cross wind. centering the ailerons should counter the drift. use left
toe brake if you feel the aircraft skidding when using rudder input.
the sooner you get the nose gear to the runway the sooner you'll have
directional control

Dan,

Left aileron would be in the _opposite_ direction of the indicated
crosswind.


Well, seems your nose indicates something else, doesn't it?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Dan wrote:
I've got a question for the group. Suppose you find yourself in the
following situation:

You are flying a C182, landing on runway 22. The ATIS lists the winds
as 240 at 10. The windsock is not visible.

You approach at a normal airspeed, full flaps, coming over the numbers
at 65 kts. The mains touchdown, followed by the nosegear. Slight
right aileron is being maintained into the wind. Everything is
aligned properly and on the centerline at touchdown.

After touchdown the plane starts to drift to the right side of the
runway. You try to correct by pointing the nose back to the
centerline with left rudder. The nose seems to be pointed left, but
the plane is still drifting right. It feels like any more left rudder
could result in bad skidding and/or a ground loop.

What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation?

Left aileron would be in the _opposite_ direction of the indicated
crosswind. Increasing back pressure would make the nosewheel even
less effective.

It depends on the reason for the drift. If it is because you landed
without being aligned, then I would hold the aileron into the wind and
correct with rudder. If it is because the wind really is from the other
side, then I would immediately correct the aileron position. However,
you would know the latter based on the control inputs required to
maintain alignment on final. You should have no doubt as to the wind
direction prior to touch down. It sounds like the airplane wasn't
aligned with the runway at touch down and you just need more rudder to
get things back on track.

Matt

Dan wrote:
What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation?

Yoke full aft, full right aileron, left rudder as necessary to maintain
directional control, flaps up.

On May 20, 6:34 am, john smith wrote:
Dan wrote:
What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation?

Yoke full aft, full right aileron, left rudder as necessary to maintain
directional control, flaps up.

OK, so you're saying that based on the situation, I should trust the
ATIS, not the fact that the plane is drifting right? Should the
ailerons _always_ be into the wind regardless of actual aircraft
drift?

How much rudder in one direction or the other can a tricycle gear
light plane take without groundlooping?

I am working on a checkout in this C182 after about 400 hours in
Pipers. Compared to what I am used to, the Cessna ground handling
(especially after touchdown) seems very squirrley. I've had the same
experience with the couple hours I have in 152s and 172s as well.

--Dan

Could it be the ground effect differences between low wing and high wing
aircraft that are contributing to this issue?


"Dan" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 20, 6:34 am, john smith wrote:
Dan wrote:
What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation?

Yoke full aft, full right aileron, left rudder as necessary to maintain
directional control, flaps up.

OK, so you're saying that based on the situation, I should trust the
ATIS, not the fact that the plane is drifting right? Should the
ailerons _always_ be into the wind regardless of actual aircraft
drift?

How much rudder in one direction or the other can a tricycle gear
light plane take without groundlooping?

I am working on a checkout in this C182 after about 400 hours in
Pipers. Compared to what I am used to, the Cessna ground handling
(especially after touchdown) seems very squirrley. I've had the same
experience with the couple hours I have in 152s and 172s as well.

--Dan

"Bill Denton" wrote in message


Could it be the ground effect differences between low wing and high
wing aircraft that are contributing to this issue?

"Dan" wrote in message
oups.com...

I am working on a checkout in this C182 after about 400 hours in
Pipers. Compared to what I am used to, the Cessna ground handling
(especially after touchdown) seems very squirrley. I've had the same
experience with the couple hours I have in 152s and 172s as well.

My guess is the difference in nose gear steering. Skylanes use a bungee to
"persuade" the nose gear to turn in a given direction while the typical
Piper nosegear is much more authoritative.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://openspf.org
____________________

Bill Denton wrote:
Could it be the ground effect differences between low wing and high wing
aircraft that are contributing to this issue?


No, I noticed that right away after I bought my Bonanza. With my 182 it
was second nature to manipulate the aileron for the wind while taxiing.
In the Bo I don't bother as there's no reason to. I simply hold the
yoke so the controls don't get slammed around in the wind. With a high
wing the wing is out there on a longer lever plus the wheel track is a
little narrower.

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Bill Denton wrote:
Could it be the ground effect differences between low wing and high wing
aircraft that are contributing to this issue?


No, I noticed that right away after I bought my Bonanza. With my 182 it
was second nature to manipulate the aileron for the wind while taxiing.
In the Bo I don't bother as there's no reason to. I simply hold the
yoke so the controls don't get slammed around in the wind. With a high
wing the wing is out there on a longer lever plus the wheel track is a
little narrower.

I am pretty sure that there is also more wind six feet from the graound than
there is three feet from the ground.

Presumably there are plenty of statistics on the subject, although I have no
idea where to look or would would make a good search argument for and
internet search.

Peter