Ramp Fees

I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

Dave

"noname" wrote in message
...
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?


See 14 CFR 91.103 Preflight action
Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar
with all available information concerning that flight.

And, was it really tarmac or was it asphalt or concrete?

[/smartass off]

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

noname wrote:
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

Dave

If someone in management wasn't available to discuss the issue with I
would have told them to bill me and taken it up with management at a
later date.

noname wrote:
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.


Are you sure that wasn't the landing fee? Both the A/FD and Airnav list
the following :

Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all acft except
solo students.

As for unposted ramp fees, I don't like 'em either, but they do exist.
Seems to be mostly an Eastern U.S. thing. I rarely see them out in the West
unless I'm going to a large class B or C airport, or if it's an FBO like
Millionare or Signature, which are somewhat famous for charging ramp fees.
When in doubt, I usually call ahead and ask, or check Airnav.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

On Aug 28, 2:44*pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote:
noname wrote:
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

* Are you sure that wasn't the landing fee? *Both the A/FD and Airnav list
the following :

Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all acft except
solo students.

* *As for unposted ramp fees, I don't like 'em either, but they do exist.
Seems to be mostly an Eastern U.S. thing. *I rarely see them out in the West
unless I'm going to a large class B or C airport, or if it's an FBO like
Millionare or Signature, which are somewhat famous for charging ramp fees..
When in doubt, I usually call ahead and ask, or check Airnav.

I use Millionare and Signature all the time. I decided awhile back
that the extra fees are more than worth it for the extra help you get
for the rental car, service, etc when flying with the family. I know a
lot of guys who's family (wife, etc) won't fly with them because they
see it as a hassle. Spend the few extra bucks and have Signature fill
up your plane rather than make your wife get into a hot airplane, taxi
over to fuel, get out, get back in, etc. Just makes everything easier.
I usually buy gas, O2 and snacks, etc. I don't mention the tie down
and they often forget to charge me for it so its often not an issue.
These "top grade" FBOs are also great when the rental car company
screws up your car (which is frequent), because they will drive you
over to the rental car lot or even to your hotel for free.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...
On Aug 28, 2:44 pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote:
noname wrote:
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

Are you sure that wasn't the landing fee? Both the A/FD and Airnav list
the following :

Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all acft except
solo students.

As for unposted ramp fees, I don't like 'em either, but they do exist.
Seems to be mostly an Eastern U.S. thing. I rarely see them out in the
West
unless I'm going to a large class B or C airport, or if it's an FBO like
Millionare or Signature, which are somewhat famous for charging ramp
fees.
When in doubt, I usually call ahead and ask, or check Airnav.

I use Millionare and Signature all the time. I decided awhile back
that the extra fees are more than worth it for the extra help you get
for the rental car, service, etc when flying with the family. I know a
lot of guys who's family (wife, etc) won't fly with them because they
see it as a hassle. Spend the few extra bucks and have Signature fill
up your plane rather than make your wife get into a hot airplane, taxi
over to fuel, get out, get back in, etc. Just makes everything easier.
I usually buy gas, O2 and snacks, etc. I don't mention the tie down
and they often forget to charge me for it so its often not an issue.
These "top grade" FBOs are also great when the rental car company
screws up your car (which is frequent), because they will drive you
over to the rental car lot or even to your hotel for free.

I prefer the independent FBOs to the big chains like Millionair and
Signature. Usually their service is good, but sometimes they treat you like
a leper if you are a Avgas burner. They will quite often park you in the
remotest corner of their ramp to make room for the corporate guys and I've
had them refuse the courtesy car because they only had one available and it
was "reserved". I've also had a few other bad experiences with those
particular two. I really don't blame them because they are catering to a
customer who is buying north of 1000 gals of fuel rather than one who is
buying south of 100. Their prices are also typically outrageous for fuel
and they will routinely charge you $40-50 to fill up a small O2 tank.

I just prefer to go to organizations who cater mostly to the piston guys.
I've gotten service equally as good and they appreciate your business.

On Aug 28, 4:57*pm, "Mike" wrote:

I prefer the independent FBOs to the big chains like Millionair and
Signature. *Usually their service is good, but sometimes they treat you like
a leper if you are a Avgas burner. *They will quite often park you in the
remotest corner of their ramp to make room for the corporate guys and I've
had them refuse the courtesy car because they only had one available and it
was "reserved". *

I've never understood why people care where their plane is. You pull
up to the front of the FBO, they unload your plane into your rental
car. Then when you leave the hotel to go back to the airport you call
the FBO to stage your airplane. They could store the plane in Iran for
all I care, the point is its sitting in front of the FBO when I'm
ready for it.

I never use the courtesy car, I just book a rental. Rental cars is the
real reason that big FBOs rule. The little FBOs get crappy service
from the car rental companies. Several times when I tried a small FBO
the rental car guys show up and try to drive me to another airport to
pick up my car.
At the big FBO from shut down to driving down the freeway is only
about 15 minutes vs. almost an hour at the little FBOs. When flying
with the family the service of fueling and staging is important. Long
ago I figured out that family flying works best when the trip isn't
about the airplane or hanging around the airport, its about going
somewhere cool.


-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...
On Aug 28, 4:57 pm, "Mike" wrote:

I prefer the independent FBOs to the big chains like Millionair and
Signature. Usually their service is good, but sometimes they treat you
like
a leper if you are a Avgas burner. They will quite often park you in the
remotest corner of their ramp to make room for the corporate guys and
I've
had them refuse the courtesy car because they only had one available and
it
was "reserved".

I've never understood why people care where their plane is. You pull
up to the front of the FBO, they unload your plane into your rental
car. Then when you leave the hotel to go back to the airport you call
the FBO to stage your airplane. They could store the plane in Iran for
all I care, the point is its sitting in front of the FBO when I'm
ready for it.

I could care less if they want to stage my plane somewhere else. My
complaint is they will send a parking jockey and specifically park you in
the back 40 as soon as you taxi up, just so they can save the space up front
in case a Citation or G5 pulls up. Then I'm left carrying my bags clear
across the ramp as some larger airports with air carrier operations won't
let you drive a rental car out on the ramp to unload.

I never use the courtesy car, I just book a rental. Rental cars is the
real reason that big FBOs rule. The little FBOs get crappy service
from the car rental companies. Several times when I tried a small FBO
the rental car guys show up and try to drive me to another airport to
pick up my car.

I've had that experience also, but that's really a function of the rental
car company itself and not the FBO. I've had the same experience with
Signature. I've been to other FBOs where the rental car company will
actually just leave one or two of their cars at the airport and allow the
FBO to fill out the contract. So it really just depends on how agressive
those rental car companies are in seeking out GA business.

As far as courtesy cars go, I use them all the time when I'm just staying
long enough to go get lunch. A rental car isn't practical for that.

At the big FBO from shut down to driving down the freeway is only
about 15 minutes vs. almost an hour at the little FBOs. When flying
with the family the service of fueling and staging is important. Long
ago I figured out that family flying works best when the trip isn't
about the airplane or hanging around the airport, its about going
somewhere cool.

That's just a function of location and can very easily work the other way
around if the big airport is downtown and there's a smaller one closer to
where you want to go.

On Aug 28, 6:07*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Aug 28, 2:44*pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote:



noname wrote:
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

* Are you sure that wasn't the landing fee? *Both the A/FD and Airnav list
the following :

Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all acft except
solo students.

* *As for unposted ramp fees, I don't like 'em either, but they do exist.
Seems to be mostly an Eastern U.S. thing. *I rarely see them out in the West
unless I'm going to a large class B or C airport, or if it's an FBO like
Millionare or Signature, which are somewhat famous for charging ramp fees.
When in doubt, I usually call ahead and ask, or check Airnav.

I use Millionare and Signature all the time. I decided awhile back
that the extra fees are more than worth it for the extra help you get
for the rental car, service, etc when flying with the family. I know a
lot of guys who's family (wife, etc) won't fly with them because they
see it as a hassle. Spend the few extra bucks and have Signature fill
up your plane rather than make your wife get into a hot airplane, taxi
over to fuel, get out, get back in, etc. Just makes everything easier.
I usually buy gas, O2 and snacks, etc. I don't mention the tie down
and they often forget to charge me for it so its often not an issue.
These "top grade" FBOs are also great when the rental car company
screws up your car (which is frequent), because they will drive you
over to the rental car lot or even to your hotel for free.


The other thing is that when you divert to the nearby class C at 1:00
am because your home airport fogged in, guess which FBO is going to be
the only one available to help you? You're not just paying for the
red carpet service, you're also paying for the availability at odd
hours when you might need it someday. I didn't begrudge them their
fees or even towing the airplaine to the far corner when that happened
to me, I was grateful to have a place that could get me a cab home,
including driving me over to the main terminal to pick up the cab.
That costs money to maintain.

"noname" wrote in message
...
I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

Yes, it is legal. When you land at an airport, you are essentially
patronizing a business and the responsibility is with you to investigate
such things beforehand.

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

In this case, their fees were clearly posted in the official publication and
the fee advertized was a landing fee, not a ramp fee. So you incurred that
cost as soon as your wheels hit the runway, not when you taxied to the ramp.
It may also be the airport, and not the FBO who is charging the fee. The
FBO may just be the collection point.