Toxic Depleted Uranium Rounds... for Brooks

http://www.citizen-soldier.org/CS09-uranium.html

It's toxic, moron... and the Germans can do just as much damage with
their tungsten rounds
Believe me, the L55 main gun plus DM-53 ammo will ruin your day.
At least the Germany Army isn't poisoning its own troops by using
"partially-depleted (correct term)uranium"...

Rob

In article ,
(robert arndt) wrote:

http://www.citizen-soldier.org/CS09-uranium.html

It's toxic, moron... and the Germans can do just as much damage with
their tungsten rounds

Not really. The sintered-tungsten process just isn't as good.

Believe me, the L55 main gun plus DM-53 ammo will ruin your day.
At least the Germany Army isn't poisoning its own troops by using
"partially-depleted (correct term)uranium"...

....because Rheinmetall invented a sintered-tungsten round that, while
not as good as a DU penetrator, is bought by the German armed forces to
prop up their business for exports.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"robert arndt" wrote in message
m...
http://www.citizen-soldier.org/CS09-uranium.html

It's toxic, moron... and the Germans can do just as much damage with
their tungsten rounds
Believe me, the L55 main gun plus DM-53 ammo will ruin your day.
At least the Germany Army isn't poisoning its own troops by using
"partially-depleted (correct term)uranium"...

LOL....

How about instead of using a radical leftist anti-war site with a political
agenda as a source, we use a scientific one?

Ok then:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...nitions/du.htm

A few pertinant quotes, in case some people don't want to read the entire
article:
"The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) for the
Department of Health and Human Services estimates there are an average of 4
tons of uranium in the top foot of soil in every square mile of land. A
heavy metal similar to tungsten and lead, uranium occurs in soils in typical
concentrations of a few parts per million (equivalent to about half a
teaspoon of uranium in a typical 8-cubic yard dump truck-load of dirt)."

"The Department of Energy (DOE) recently reported that the DU it provided to
DoD for manufacturing armor plates and munitions may contain trace levels (a
few parts per billion ) of contaminants including neptunium, plutonium,
americium, technitium-99 and uranium-236. From a radiological perspective,
these contaminants in DU add less than one percent to the radioactivity of
DU itself."

"The major health concerns about DU relate to its chemical properties as a
heavy metal rather than to its radioactivity, which is very low. As with all
chemicals, the hazard depends mainly upon the amount taken into the body.
Medical science recognizes that uranium at high doses can cause kidney
damage. However, those levels are far above levels soldiers would have
encountered in the Gulf or the Balkans."

"Most soldiers and civilians will not be exposed to dangerous levels of
depleted uranium."

"...in certain circumstances the exposures may be high and there would be a
risk of heavy metal poisoning that could lead to long-term kidney damage for
a few soldiers, as well as the increased risk of lung cancer. A small number
of soldiers and civilians might suffer kidney damage from depleted uranium
if substantial amounts are breathed in, or swallowed in contaminated soil
and water."

"Because depleted uranium emits primarily alpha radiation, it is not
considered a serious external radiation hazard. The depleted uranium in
armor and rounds is covered, further reducing the radiation dose. When
breathed or eaten, small amounts of depleted uranium are carried in the
blood to body tissues and organs; much the same as the more radioactive
natural uranium. Despite this, no radiological health effects are expected
because the radioactivity of uranium and depleted uranium are so low."

Hmmm.... so it seems that the actual danger from DU is not due to it's
'radioactivity' as some hysterical critics would like us to believe, but
rather from it's properties as a heavy metal (which in and of itself is not
much more than any other heavy metal one might encounter on the battlefield,
including tungsten carbide), and then only by directly ingesting an
abnormally large amount of the stuff.

Perhaps we should make our tank rounds out of wood?

And one more quote:

"In military applications, when alloyed, Depleted Uranium is ideal for use
in armor penetrators. These solid metal projectiles have the speed, mass and
physical properties to perform exceptionally well against armored targets.
DU provides a substantial performance advantage, well above other competing
materials. This allows DU penetrators to defeat an armored target at a
significantly greater distance. Also, DU's density and physical properties
make it ideal for use as armor plate. DU has been used in weapon systems for
many years in both applications."

Apparantly, the Germans can do nowhere near the amount of damage with their
tungsten rounds. Oh and here's another good one:

"US forces also use DU to enhance their tanks' armor protection. In one
noteworthy incident, an M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank, its thick steel armor
reinforced by a layer of DU sandwiched between two layers of steel, rebuffed
a close-in attack by three of Iraq's T-72 tanks. After deflecting three hits
from Iraq's tanks, the Abrams' crew dispatched the T-72s with a single DU
round to each of the three Iraqi tanks."

Yep, I think that we'll keep our DU right where it is.

Well done, Thomas. I agree completely. Mention uranium (depleted or otherwise)
to the loony left and they go ballistic. Seems some folks are more concerned
with the casualties inflicted on the enemy than the casualties inflicted
on us....loyalty questions, anyone?






"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote:

"robert arndt" wrote in
message
om...
http://www.citizen-soldier.org/CS09-uranium.html

It's toxic, moron... and the Germans can do
just as much damage with
their tungsten rounds
Believe me, the L55 main gun plus DM-53 ammo
will ruin your day.
At least the Germany Army isn't poisoning
its own troops by using
"partially-depleted (correct term)uranium"...

LOL....

How about instead of using a radical leftist
anti-war site with a political
agenda as a source, we use a scientific one?

Ok then:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...nitions/du.htm

A few pertinant quotes, in case some people
don't want to read the entire
article:
"The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease
Registry (ATSDR) for the
Department of Health and Human Services estimates
there are an average of 4
tons of uranium in the top foot of soil in every
square mile of land. A
heavy metal similar to tungsten and lead, uranium
occurs in soils in typical
concentrations of a few parts per million (equivalent
to about half a
teaspoon of uranium in a typical 8-cubic yard
dump truck-load of dirt)."

"The Department of Energy (DOE) recently reported
that the DU it provided to
DoD for manufacturing armor plates and munitions
may contain trace levels (a
few parts per billion ) of contaminants including
neptunium, plutonium,
americium, technitium-99 and uranium-236. From
a radiological perspective,
these contaminants in DU add less than one percent
to the radioactivity of
DU itself."

"The major health concerns about DU relate to
its chemical properties as a
heavy metal rather than to its radioactivity,
which is very low. As with all
chemicals, the hazard depends mainly upon the
amount taken into the body.
Medical science recognizes that uranium at high
doses can cause kidney
damage. However, those levels are far above
levels soldiers would have
encountered in the Gulf or the Balkans."

"Most soldiers and civilians will not be exposed
to dangerous levels of
depleted uranium."

"...in certain circumstances the exposures may
be high and there would be a
risk of heavy metal poisoning that could lead
to long-term kidney damage for
a few soldiers, as well as the increased risk
of lung cancer. A small number
of soldiers and civilians might suffer kidney
damage from depleted uranium
if substantial amounts are breathed in, or swallowed
in contaminated soil
and water."

"Because depleted uranium emits primarily alpha
radiation, it is not
considered a serious external radiation hazard.
The depleted uranium in
armor and rounds is covered, further reducing
the radiation dose. When
breathed or eaten, small amounts of depleted
uranium are carried in the
blood to body tissues and organs; much the same
as the more radioactive
natural uranium. Despite this, no radiological
health effects are expected
because the radioactivity of uranium and depleted
uranium are so low."

Hmmm.... so it seems that the actual danger
from DU is not due to it's
'radioactivity' as some hysterical critics would
like us to believe, but
rather from it's properties as a heavy metal
(which in and of itself is not
much more than any other heavy metal one might
encounter on the battlefield,
including tungsten carbide), and then only by
directly ingesting an
abnormally large amount of the stuff.

Perhaps we should make our tank rounds out of
wood?

And one more quote:

"In military applications, when alloyed, Depleted
Uranium is ideal for use
in armor penetrators. These solid metal projectiles
have the speed, mass and
physical properties to perform exceptionally
well against armored targets.
DU provides a substantial performance advantage,
well above other competing
materials. This allows DU penetrators to defeat
an armored target at a
significantly greater distance. Also, DU's density
and physical properties
make it ideal for use as armor plate. DU has
been used in weapon systems for
many years in both applications."

Apparantly, the Germans can do nowhere near
the amount of damage with their
tungsten rounds. Oh and here's another good
one:

"US forces also use DU to enhance their tanks'
armor protection. In one
noteworthy incident, an M1A1 Abrams Main Battle
Tank, its thick steel armor
reinforced by a layer of DU sandwiched between
two layers of steel, rebuffed
a close-in attack by three of Iraq's T-72 tanks.
After deflecting three hits
from Iraq's tanks, the Abrams' crew dispatched
the T-72s with a single DU
round to each of the three Iraqi tanks."

Yep, I think that we'll keep our DU right where
it is.








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"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message
...

"robert arndt" wrote in message
m...
http://www.citizen-soldier.org/CS09-uranium.html

It's toxic, moron... and the Germans can do just as much damage
with
their tungsten rounds
Believe me, the L55 main gun plus DM-53 ammo will ruin your day.
At least the Germany Army isn't poisoning its own troops by using
"partially-depleted (correct term)uranium"...

LOL....

How about instead of using a radical leftist anti-war site with a
political
agenda as a source, we use a scientific one?

Ok then:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...nitions/du.htm

SNIP cuts from above URLs


"US forces also use DU to enhance their tanks' armor protection. In
one
noteworthy incident, an M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank, its thick
steel armor
reinforced by a layer of DU sandwiched between two layers of steel,
rebuffed
a close-in attack by three of Iraq's T-72 tanks. After deflecting
three hits
from Iraq's tanks, the Abrams' crew dispatched the T-72s with a
single DU
round to each of the three Iraqi tanks."

Yep, I think that we'll keep our DU right where it is.

I believe the M1A2 has dropped the DU armour in favour of Chobham
style armour.

"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
...



I believe the M1A2 has dropped the DU armour in favour of Chobham
style armour.



And what exactly do you think is used in Chobham armour ?

Hint: its generally believed to be made of layers
of ceramic and some hard heavy metal.

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
...



I believe the M1A2 has dropped the DU armour in favour of Chobham
style armour.



And what exactly do you think is used in Chobham armour ?

Hint: its generally believed to be made of layers
of ceramic and some hard heavy metal.

Not originally, from what I have read. IIRC the original composition was
reportedly steel with a ceramic layer (or layers), with the DU being added
later by the US (I don't recall its being used by the Challenger II?).

Brooks


Keith

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...


Not originally, from what I have read. IIRC the original composition was
reportedly steel with a ceramic layer (or layers), with the DU being added
later by the US (I don't recall its being used by the Challenger II?).

Brooks


Challenger II is officially listed as being protected by
second generation Chobham armour, the exact
composition os of course secret but the understanding
I have is it uses either DU or tungsten in place of
the steel in first generation armor

Keith

In article ,
on Tue, 11 May 2004 13:03:37 +0100,
Keith Willshaw attempted to say .....


"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
...



I believe the M1A2 has dropped the DU armour in favour of Chobham
style armour.



And what exactly do you think is used in Chobham armour ?

Hint: its generally believed to be made of layers
of ceramic and some hard heavy metal.


Marshmellows, graham crackers and hershey bars............


--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:14:00 GMT, Tank Fixer
wrote:


And what exactly do you think is used in Chobham armour ?

Hint: its generally believed to be made of layers
of ceramic and some hard heavy metal.


Marshmellows, graham crackers and hershey bars............

Nah, 100% pure depleted unobtainium.


greg

--
"vying with Platt for the largest gap
between capability and self perception"