Fighter Aircraft Alternates?

Hi Guys,
Just wondering what the alternate (losing) choices were for the main US
older fighter aircraft?

eg. I know the YF17 lost out to the F18...

But what were the competitors to the rest (you don't need to go back too
far) - that's if they actually HAD competitors...

F14?
F15?
F16?
A10?
F117?
(have I missed any?)

and any pix?

Cheers,
Richard

eg. I know the YF17 lost out to the F18...


Nope, to the YF-16.

The YF-17 design was scaled up somewhat for the F/A-18.


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India

Ron wrote:

eg. I know the YF17 lost out to the F18...


Nope, to the YF-16.

The YF-17 design was scaled up somewhat for the F/A-18.

Yeah?
Every time I look up this stuff I always get the YF17 vs YF18 pictures...
and they're pretty similar looking jets too...

Cheers,
Richard

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 16:28:36 +1000, Richard Stewart
wrote:

Ron wrote:

eg. I know the YF17 lost out to the F18...


Nope, to the YF-16.

The YF-17 design was scaled up somewhat for the F/A-18.

Yeah?
Every time I look up this stuff I always get the YF17 vs YF18 pictures...
and they're pretty similar looking jets too...

Cheers,
Richard


There's a reason for that. They're before/after photos. That's why
they are so similar. Any article on the YF-17 will tell you so.

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 15:53:51 +1000, Richard Stewart
wrote:

Hi Guys,
Just wondering what the alternate (losing) choices were for the main US
older fighter aircraft?

eg. I know the YF17 lost out to the F18...

But what were the competitors to the rest (you don't need to go back too
far) - that's if they actually HAD competitors...

F14?
F15?
F16?
A10?
F117?
(have I missed any?)

and any pix?

Cheers,
Richard

F-15:
Boeing, Fairchild Republic, General Dynamics, Grumman, Lockheed, LTV,
McDonnell Douglas and North American / Rockwell all submitted
proposals for the F-X competition, but only the winning entry
(McDonnell Douglas) was built, as the F-15 Eagle.

A-10:
Boeing, Cessna, Fairchild Republic, General Dynamics, Lockheed and
Northrop submitted proposals for the A-X competition. Fairchild
Republic and Northrop were selected to build competing prototypes, as
the YA-10 and YA-9, respectively.

See:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea...k/a6/a6-10.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea...k/a6/a6-11.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea...k/a6/a6-12.htm

F-16:
Boeing (Model 908-909), General Dynamics (Model 401-16B), LTV
(V-1100), Lockheed (CL-1200 and CL-1600) and Northrop (P-600)
submitted proposals for the LWF competition (LightWeight Fighter).
General Dynamics and Northrop were selected to build competing
prototypes, as the YF-16 and YF-17, respectively. The YF-16 was chosen
as the winner. Northrop further developed, with McDonnell Douglas, the
YF-17 into the F-18, which was selected by the USN (over a navalized
F-16).

See:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea...ghter/f16a.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/fighter/f17.htm

F-117:
Northrop and Lockheed submitted proposals for the XST program
(eXperimental Survivable Testbed). Only the Lockheed entry was
selected to build two prototypes, which were developed into the F-117.

See:
http://www.f-117a.com/XST.html


I don't have much data right at hand about F-14 development. No other
competing designs were built, though. As for others: F-15E vs F-16XL,
A-16 vs YA-7F, YF-22 vs YF-23, X-32 vs X-35 are the only recent ones
that come to mind

Don't forget the F-4H (McDonnell) vs the F-8U-3 (Chance Vought). Or is
that "too far"?

Jim Thomas


Robert wrote in message . ..
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 15:53:51 +1000, Richard Stewart
wrote:

Hi Guys,
Just wondering what the alternate (losing) choices were for the main US
older fighter aircraft?

eg. I know the YF17 lost out to the F18...

But what were the competitors to the rest (you don't need to go back too
far) - that's if they actually HAD competitors...

F14?
F15?
F16?
A10?
F117?
(have I missed any?)

and any pix?

Cheers,
Richard

F-15:
Boeing, Fairchild Republic, General Dynamics, Grumman, Lockheed, LTV,
McDonnell Douglas and North American / Rockwell all submitted
proposals for the F-X competition, but only the winning entry
(McDonnell Douglas) was built, as the F-15 Eagle.

A-10:
Boeing, Cessna, Fairchild Republic, General Dynamics, Lockheed and
Northrop submitted proposals for the A-X competition. Fairchild
Republic and Northrop were selected to build competing prototypes, as
the YA-10 and YA-9, respectively.

See:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea...k/a6/a6-10.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea...k/a6/a6-11.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea...k/a6/a6-12.htm

F-16:
Boeing (Model 908-909), General Dynamics (Model 401-16B), LTV
(V-1100), Lockheed (CL-1200 and CL-1600) and Northrop (P-600)
submitted proposals for the LWF competition (LightWeight Fighter).
General Dynamics and Northrop were selected to build competing
prototypes, as the YF-16 and YF-17, respectively. The YF-16 was chosen
as the winner. Northrop further developed, with McDonnell Douglas, the
YF-17 into the F-18, which was selected by the USN (over a navalized
F-16).

See:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea...ghter/f16a.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/fighter/f17.htm

F-117:
Northrop and Lockheed submitted proposals for the XST program
(eXperimental Survivable Testbed). Only the Lockheed entry was
selected to build two prototypes, which were developed into the F-117.

See:
http://www.f-117a.com/XST.html


I don't have much data right at hand about F-14 development. No other
competing designs were built, though. As for others: F-15E vs F-16XL,
A-16 vs YA-7F, YF-22 vs YF-23, X-32 vs X-35 are the only recent ones
that come to mind

"Jim Thomas" wrote in message
om...

Don't forget the F-4H (McDonnell) vs the F-8U-3 (Chance Vought). Or is
that "too far"?


That's F4H and F8U-3.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net...
"Jim Thomas" wrote in message
om...

Don't forget the F-4H (McDonnell) vs the F-8U-3 (Chance Vought). Or is
that "too far"?


That's F4H and F8U-3.


Damn, my punktuaton and speling never wuz vere gud.

Richard Stewart wrote in message ...
Hi Guys,
Just wondering what the alternate (losing) choices were for the main US
older fighter aircraft?

eg. I know the YF17 lost out to the F18...

But what were the competitors to the rest (you don't need to go back too
far) - that's if they actually HAD competitors...

F14?
F15?
F16?
A10?
F117?
(have I missed any?)

and any pix?

F-14... was there any competition? Features from the F-15 alternate
designs showed up on the Tomcat.
F-15... McDonnell-Douglas, Rockwell, and others submittted competitive
designs
F-16... YF-17 Cobra (which influenced the F/A-18 Hornet)
F-20 Tigershark... private venture, no one wanted to buy it
Piper Enforcer and ARES Mudfighter... no interest in COIN aircraft
A-10... Northrop A-9
F-117... Northrop XST (and unknown to the USAF... Germany... the MBB
Lampyridae)

Oh, and for the B-52 fans... the Convair YB-60:
http://www.air-and-space.com/YB-60.htm

Rob
Cheers,
Richard

F-14... was there any competition? Features from the F-15 alternate
designs showed up on the Tomcat.
There was, the F-14 was selected when the F-111B failed to meet
expectations.
Whether they were in direct competition at any point I don't know, but on
paper they must have been.

F-15... McDonnell-Douglas, Rockwell, and others submittted competitive
designs
F-16... YF-17 Cobra (which influenced the F/A-18 Hornet)
And later lost out to the F/A-18 in the Navy competition (a navalised F-16
was proposed but rejected despite being pushed heavily by the white house)

F-20 Tigershark... private venture, no one wanted to buy it
Piper Enforcer and ARES Mudfighter... no interest in COIN aircraft
Never competed against the F-16 or each other. ARES was a technology
concept, Enforcer was aimed at the 3rd world market, in part for use in US
military aid projects. Those were pretty much stopped before it could enter
production

Both the Tigershark and Enforcer were meant as replacements for the F-5A
series, potential customers bought the USAF choice instead...

A-10... Northrop A-9
F-117... Northrop XST (and unknown to the USAF... Germany... the MBB
Lampyridae)

Lampyridae was never in competition to the F-117. It was a separate
development of which only a few photos of a single model exist.