Best Oxygen Setup?

As I said in my original post:Â* The pilot was either lighting up or the
regulator gave a blast of oxygen, maybe while he was taking a drag.Â* The
mask did not combust spontaneously and I never said such.

If I had to guess, I'd say he was lighting up and, just after removing
the mask, there would be pure oxygen within the mask.Â* It would be easy
to light.

On 10/2/2019 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 4:38:10 PM UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
You are correct.Â* Oxygen doesn't burn.Â* But it really supports combustion!

When I was in AF flight school (early 70s, so everyone smoked), they
warned us about smoking with a mask dangling along side one's face.
Seems one fighter jock had his mask catch fire (maybe while lighting up,
maybe due to a cabin depressurization causing the O2 system to go into
pressure mode, who knows?).Â* The point was that he suffered serious
burns to his face.

Personally I never felt the need to smoke during a 2-hour flight with a
pressure demand mask and regulator.


An oxygen mask that combusts on exposure to oxygen would be a bit of a design flaw! There will have been something else that ignited before the mask. In the context of medical or general aviation oxygen use I would be far more concerned about oxygen exposure to petroleum based products (e.g. vaseline, Vicks, Chapstick on the face) than smoking

https://www.thoughtco.com/flammability-of-oxygen-608783

--
Dan, 5J

On Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 9:38:10 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
You are correct.Â* Oxygen doesn't burn.Â* But it really supports combustion!

When I was in AF flight school (early 70s, so everyone smoked), they
warned us about smoking with a mask dangling along side one's face.
Seems one fighter jock had his mask catch fire (maybe while lighting up,
maybe due to a cabin depressurization causing the O2 system to go into
pressure mode, who knows?).Â* The point was that he suffered serious
burns to his face.

Personally I never felt the need to smoke during a 2-hour flight with a
pressure demand mask and regulator.

On 10/2/2019 12:09 AM, wrote:
Many moons ago when I was a junior hospital doctor in a chest ward the preferred oxygen mask for low concentration O2 was the "Edinburgh mask" which had a circular hole in the front with the O2 nozzle entering at its lower circumference. Some of the chest patients loved it because they could smoke through the hole. As was demonstrated to me by a marginally less junior doctor, if you held the lit cig tip directly in the O2 outlet flow it just glowed brighter. Oxygen doesn't burn, it burns.

--
Dan, 5J

I've seen this twice in my career so far. Both times the person was smoking while oxygen was being administered through a nasal cannula. In one case, the cigarette actually exploded, sending the person the the ICU burn ward with 3rd degree burns to the face. NOT PRETTY!!!

The oxygen causes accelerated combustion of the tobacco, resulting in a flash of flame that can cause serious injury. I imagine this happens while they are taking a drag, and not just having it passively smolder in the presence of higher oxygen concentration though.

On Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 11:59:20 PM UTC-7, John Foster wrote:
On Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 9:38:10 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
You are correct.Â* Oxygen doesn't burn.Â* But it really supports combustion!

When I was in AF flight school (early 70s, so everyone smoked), they
warned us about smoking with a mask dangling along side one's face.
Seems one fighter jock had his mask catch fire (maybe while lighting up,
maybe due to a cabin depressurization causing the O2 system to go into
pressure mode, who knows?).Â* The point was that he suffered serious
burns to his face.

Personally I never felt the need to smoke during a 2-hour flight with a
pressure demand mask and regulator.

On 10/2/2019 12:09 AM, wrote:
Many moons ago when I was a junior hospital doctor in a chest ward the preferred oxygen mask for low concentration O2 was the "Edinburgh mask" which had a circular hole in the front with the O2 nozzle entering at its lower circumference. Some of the chest patients loved it because they could smoke through the hole. As was demonstrated to me by a marginally less junior doctor, if you held the lit cig tip directly in the O2 outlet flow it just glowed brighter. Oxygen doesn't burn, it burns.

--
Dan, 5J

I've seen this twice in my career so far. Both times the person was smoking while oxygen was being administered through a nasal cannula. In one case, the cigarette actually exploded, sending the person the the ICU burn ward with 3rd degree burns to the face. NOT PRETTY!!!

The oxygen causes accelerated combustion of the tobacco, resulting in a flash of flame that can cause serious injury. I imagine this happens while they are taking a drag, and not just having it passively smolder in the presence of higher oxygen concentration though.

Natural selection at work.

At 15:20 03 October 2019, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 11:59:20 PM UTC-7, John
Foster wrote:
On Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 9:38:10 AM UTC-6, Dan
Marotta wrote:
You are correct.=C2=A0 Oxygen doesn't burn.=C2=A0 But it
really
support=
s combustion!
=20
When I was in AF flight school (early 70s, so everyone
smoked), they=20
warned us about smoking with a mask dangling along side
one's face.=20
Seems one fighter jock had his mask catch fire (maybe while
lighting
up=
,=20
maybe due to a cabin depressurization causing the O2 system
to go into=
=20
pressure mode, who knows?).=C2=A0 The point was that he
suffered
seriou=
s=20
burns to his face.
=20
Personally I never felt the need to smoke during a 2-hour
flight with
a=
=20
pressure demand mask and regulator.
=20
On 10/2/2019 12:09 AM, wrote:
Many moons ago when I was a junior hospital doctor in a
chest ward
th=
e preferred oxygen mask for low concentration O2 was the
"Edinburgh mask"
w=
hich had a circular hole in the front with the O2 nozzle entering at
its
lo=
wer circumference. Some of the chest patients loved it because
they could
=
smoke through the hole. As was demonstrated to me by a
marginally less
jun=
ior doctor, if you held the lit cig tip directly in the O2 outlet flow it
j=
ust glowed brighter. Oxygen doesn't burn, it burns.
=20
--=20
Dan, 5J
=20
I've seen this twice in my career so far. Both times the person
was
smok=
ing while oxygen was being administered through a nasal cannula.
In one
ca=
se, the cigarette actually exploded, sending the person the the
ICU burn
wa=
rd with 3rd degree burns to the face. NOT PRETTY!!!
=20
The oxygen causes accelerated combustion of the tobacco,
resulting in a
f=
lash of flame that can cause serious injury. I imagine this
happens while
=
they are taking a drag, and not just having it passively smolder in
the
pre=
sence of higher oxygen concentration though.

Natural selection at work. =20


I have been using a Dive type cylinder because they are easier to
get re filled.
Last Saturday I was flying with the bottle on but the regulator off
above a ridge trying to connect to the wave system.
About 1 hour in and 2700ft asl there was a loud pop and bottle
pressure O2 started blowing into the cockpit .
I could not turn the bottle off so I opened the DV window put a
Pan call out and got it back on the glider field in about 3 minuets .
I have never been so scared ,and I have loads of field landings and
thousands of hours in gliders.
I blame it on lack of maintenance and use, the cylinders has been
sitting in the glider since March turned off while I flew thermals in
the UK.
My bad just need the bottle re-filling and probably a new O ring.

Jonathon May wrote on 10/3/2019 9:55 AM:

I have been using a Dive type cylinder because they are easier to
get re filled.
Last Saturday I was flying with the bottle on but the regulator off
above a ridge trying to connect to the wave system.
About 1 hour in and 2700ft asl there was a loud pop and bottle
pressure O2 started blowing into the cockpit .
I could not turn the bottle off so I opened the DV window put a
Pan call out and got it back on the glider field in about 3 minuets .
I have never been so scared ,and I have loads of field landings and
thousands of hours in gliders.
I blame it on lack of maintenance and use, the cylinders has been
sitting in the glider since March turned off while I flew thermals in
the UK.
My bad just need the bottle re-filling and probably a new O ring.

What is a Dive type cylinder, and why is it easier to get it refilled with oxygen?

What failed and caused the pop?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

At 18:22 03 October 2019, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jonathon May wrote on 10/3/2019 9:55 AM:

I have been using a Dive type cylinder because they are easier
to
get re filled.
Last Saturday I was flying with the bottle on but the regulator
off
above a ridge trying to connect to the wave system.
About 1 hour in and 2700ft asl there was a loud pop and bottle
pressure O2 started blowing into the cockpit .
I could not turn the bottle off so I opened the DV window put a
Pan call out and got it back on the glider field in about 3
minuets .
I have never been so scared ,and I have loads of field landings
and
thousands of hours in gliders.
I blame it on lack of maintenance and use, the cylinders has
been
sitting in the glider since March turned off while I flew thermals
in
the UK.
My bad just need the bottle re-filling and probably a new O ring.

What is a Dive type cylinder, and why is it easier to get it refilled
with
oxygen?

What failed and caused the pop?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us"
to email
me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ions/download-
the-guide-1


I assume the O ring displaced,I took it off and it sealed OK on the
ground, but its going to be checked before I use it again I assure
you.

Dive cylinder has a square top with an outlet and 2 indexing pins.
The regulator does over the top with a yoke and a screw pushes an
inlet with O ring positioned with the index pins against the outlet.
They are common to compressed air dive bottles ,quick to change
bottles and no chance of a cross thread.Very robust compared with
our threaded connector mountain high cylinders.
In the Uk many dive shops will not charge a DOT cylinder, they want
a DIN number and date.

Jonathon May wrote on 10/3/2019 1:17 PM:
At 18:22 03 October 2019, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jonathon May wrote on 10/3/2019 9:55 AM:

I have been using a Dive type cylinder because they are easier
to
get re filled.
Last Saturday I was flying with the bottle on but the regulator
off
above a ridge trying to connect to the wave system.
About 1 hour in and 2700ft asl there was a loud pop and bottle
pressure O2 started blowing into the cockpit .
I could not turn the bottle off so I opened the DV window put a
Pan call out and got it back on the glider field in about 3
minuets .
I have never been so scared ,and I have loads of field landings
and
thousands of hours in gliders.
I blame it on lack of maintenance and use, the cylinders has
been
sitting in the glider since March turned off while I flew thermals
in
the UK.
My bad just need the bottle re-filling and probably a new O ring.

What is a Dive type cylinder, and why is it easier to get it refilled
with
oxygen?

What failed and caused the pop?


I assume the O ring displaced,I took it off and it sealed OK on the
ground, but its going to be checked before I use it again I assure
you.

Dive cylinder has a square top with an outlet and 2 indexing pins.
The regulator does over the top with a yoke and a screw pushes an
inlet with O ring positioned with the index pins against the outlet.
They are common to compressed air dive bottles ,quick to change
bottles and no chance of a cross thread.Very robust compared with
our threaded connector mountain high cylinders.
In the Uk many dive shops will not charge a DOT cylinder, they want
a DIN number and date.

That sounds like what is called a "medical bottle" in the US. I used them for
several years because I could exchange them at almost any pharmacy, which are much
more plentiful than airports (with oxygen) or welding shops. Unfortunately, they
began to require a prescription from a doctor to get oxygen. A prescription for
something everyone is breathing? Did not see that one coming; anyhow, I now
transfill my bottles from welding bottles, which is easy and cheap. For traveling,
I carry a medium size welding bottle, good for 2 or 3 fills.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

I've never heard of a dive shop supplying oxygen.Â* During my scuba
training in the early 60s, I was taught that oxygen is toxic at high
ambient pressure as below some depth which I didn't bother to research.Â*
Imagine filling a scuba tank (dive bottle) with oxygen and killing the
diver!

Now I know that things are different on the east side of the Atlantic,
but are you sure you're getting oxygen and not just compressed air at
the dive shop?

On 10/3/2019 2:17 PM, Jonathon May wrote:
At 18:22 03 October 2019, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jonathon May wrote on 10/3/2019 9:55 AM:
I have been using a Dive type cylinder because they are easier
to
get re filled.
Last Saturday I was flying with the bottle on but the regulator
off
above a ridge trying to connect to the wave system.
About 1 hour in and 2700ft asl there was a loud pop and bottle
pressure O2 started blowing into the cockpit .
I could not turn the bottle off so I opened the DV window put a
Pan call out and got it back on the glider field in about 3
minuets .
I have never been so scared ,and I have loads of field landings
and
thousands of hours in gliders.
I blame it on lack of maintenance and use, the cylinders has
been
sitting in the glider since March turned off while I flew thermals
in
the UK.
My bad just need the bottle re-filling and probably a new O ring.
What is a Dive type cylinder, and why is it easier to get it refilled
with
oxygen?

What failed and caused the pop?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us"
to email
me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ions/download-
the-guide-1
I assume the O ring displaced,I took it off and it sealed OK on the
ground, but its going to be checked before I use it again I assure
you.

Dive cylinder has a square top with an outlet and 2 indexing pins.
The regulator does over the top with a yoke and a screw pushes an
inlet with O ring positioned with the index pins against the outlet.
They are common to compressed air dive bottles ,quick to change
bottles and no chance of a cross thread.Very robust compared with
our threaded connector mountain high cylinders.
In the Uk many dive shops will not charge a DOT cylinder, they want
a DIN number and date.



--
Dan, 5J

On Thursday, October 3, 2019 at 8:49:06 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
I've never heard of a dive shop supplying oxygen.Â* During my scuba
training in the early 60s, I was taught that oxygen is toxic at high
ambient pressure as below some depth which I didn't bother to research.Â*
Imagine filling a scuba tank (dive bottle) with oxygen and killing the
diver!

Divers keep a bottle of O2 around in the boat to treat bends or just to get rid of nitrogen in blood faster to be able to dive more in a day.

Le jeudi 3 octobre 2019 22:30:05 UTC+2, Jonathon May a écritÂ*:
At 18:22 03 October 2019, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jonathon May wrote on 10/3/2019 9:55 AM:

I have been using a Dive type cylinder because they are easier
to
get re filled.
Last Saturday I was flying with the bottle on but the regulator
off
above a ridge trying to connect to the wave system.
About 1 hour in and 2700ft asl there was a loud pop and bottle
pressure O2 started blowing into the cockpit .
I could not turn the bottle off so I opened the DV window put a
Pan call out and got it back on the glider field in about 3
minuets .
I have never been so scared ,and I have loads of field landings
and
thousands of hours in gliders.

I had a similar experience thus summer - the connector on the MH regulator obviously had worn out over the about 20 years of use and decided to let go the connecting hose to the EDS unit.
I can't reach the cylinder inflight without an immense effort of wiggling myself, and as I was close to the rocks trying to get the first climb of the day, I just kept on flying. The oxygene pressure on the outlet of the regulator is 2 bars or less, so it can't do any harm.