Surecheck TrafficScope Pirep?

(MikeremlaP) wrote in
:

I haven't taken ours apart, but I've heard the same from another guy
who took his apart - no detector, correct?

No megabit data slicer. It receives the transponder reply, but does not
turn it into a digital datastream.

The ATD-200 uses two schemes for altitude discrimination: signal
aperture ratio and Mode C LSB comparison. The signal aperture ratio is
the dominant factor for traffic with no Mode C.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If I understand him correctly (from this and other correspondence) he
IS somehow detecting altitude info and the unit is supposed to ignore
hits above/below 2500' of your altitude.

The "aperture ratio" thing is actually kind of clever. Basically it
looks at how LONG the signal is to decide if it's real (transponder) or
not. Simple (and obvious, once you think of it). But earlier attempts
didn't do it and the results was so many false alarms that they were
almost unusable.

How this relates to altitude? Hmmm... sounds a bit strange.
"...traffic with no Mode C"? Frankly, I have no idea how that would
relate. No idea at all.

As for the LSB (least significant bit) that also doesn't quite make
sense. First off is the question of whether it even SEES the LSB (I
personally do not think that it does). But even if it did, comparing
the grey code LSB between your xpndr and a received one tells you
nothing (other than your altitudes are not exactly equal). You two
could be 100 feet off, right on a transition level for the bit, and the
bits would be different. Or (I need to look, but I think the most
significant digits are last) you could be 10,000' apart and have the
same LSB.

I noticed after our unit came back from being revised that the SUPR
LED often lights up a lot in the Phoenix area, but no Traffic Alert.
I took that to mean the unit was picking up the Air Transports as it
used to, but now "suppressing" their Traffic Alert since they were out
of bounds based on Mode C info.

I've never seen the SUPR LED come on by itself. Curious. I *have* seen
it go on and off semi-randomly while tracking what is obviously the same
signal.

I can try your test and test my theory by turning off our Mode C and
seeing if suddenly I start getting Traffic Alerts on everyone.

Let me know. I have NEVER seen ANY difference in terms of traffic
alerts regardless of whether my transponder is on or off.
- - -

In one sense the unit performs however well it performs, regardless of
how. Frankly, I have been surprised by the reluctance of the mfr. to
answer this one simple issue. [We are *not* asking for a big trade
secret here. G]

A while back a similar thread came up on another list. I sent Monroy an
e:mail, which was never answered. I later sent another, I felt nicely
worded, but asking if they actually decoded the address. I got a reply
that the unit "formed a cone of protection around your aircraft..."
Basically what was in the advertising.

So eventually, some weeks later, I called. I really feel that I was
very polite. I explained that I owned one of the units and that found
it useful. But that sometimes I got "hits" that were obviously from
aircraft far outside of the implied range. I also explained that there
was some considerable confusion among the users I know as to whether or
not the unit actually decoded and compared the altitude of the two
transponders. Could he resolve the issue by telling me if the unit
actually DID look at the transmitted altitude.

He hung up on me.

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

Hi Mr. Borchert:

Hmm. The SUPR light comes on with signals from your own aircraft. Could
it be that your DME has contact to a ground station in the PHX area and
that's the reason for SUPR? DME and XPDR use similar frequencies, and
the DME will trigger the SUPR light.

After I posted my reply, I realized I should have anticipated this question.

When the ATD came back from the shop, I noticed the SUPR light was on a lot
more than it had been. (In the Phoenix area. When out in "no man's land" it
only comes on in synch (delayed) with our xponder's REPLY). So I turned off
our xponder (and rarely run the DME, but it was off too) and still the SUPR
light would light up in the Phoenix area.

So it seems the SUPR light is responding to other (strong?) targets in the
area.

Mike Palmer
Excellence in Ergonomics

"Thierry" wrote in message
om...

A new higher performance system will be available soon at a nearly
same
price of the VRX unit which will display simultaneously 3 threat
aircraft information including the aircraft SQUWAK. This new device
will also integrate an altitude alerter.

Intriguing news, but I must be missing something. Why do I care what code
my traffic is squawking? It's never mentioned except on initial contract
with ATC.

CriticalMass,

Intriguing news, but I must be missing something. Why do I care what code
my traffic is squawking?


I'm interested in the group's opinion on this. Also, would you care to look
at the display tracking three targets? When three other aircraft are out
there, I'd want to be looking outside for them. Oh wait, my RIO can do the
tracking ;-)

Seriously, though: What do you guys think of these features?

--
Thomas

"CriticalMass" wrote in message ...
"Thierry" wrote in message
om...

A new higher performance system will be available soon at a nearly
same
price of the VRX unit which will display simultaneously 3 threat
aircraft information including the aircraft SQUWAK. This new device
will also integrate an altitude alerter.

Intriguing news, but I must be missing something. Why do I care what code
my traffic is squawking? It's never mentioned except on initial contract
with ATC.

Hello,

First of all if a traffic is following you, could identify it by its
squawk number. If you don't have the SQ displayed you may think this
is a new traffic crossing your path. If you have it you could also ask
your ATC more info about a specific SQ. This will greatly help the ATC
to answer precisely.

You could also check if it's a VFR or not (1200, etc).

Displaying three threats simultaneoulsy will help you take the proper
flight level in order to avoid them all. ie : One threat "A" 200 ft
below, one 200 ft above "B". To avoid "A" You climb 200 ft and risk a
collision with "B".

Our device also distinghish threats squawking mode A only (no altitude
reported). Check if the other do the same.

Check also our receiver dynamic : 60 db typical compared to 40 db
which allow
us to offer a maximum range of 10 Nm instead of 5 Nm.

This parameter gives you a good indication of the overall quality of
our radar receiver.

Our typical power consumption is 1 watt compared to 5 to 12 watts for
the TS. This is a large difference. Imagine this small box on your
dashboard during a sunny day. Internal temperature will quickly exceed
the functional limit.
This will also impact the reliability of the device. Electronic
devices don't heat.

Last but not least you get an altitude alerter for free + free
lifetime software upgrade thru our web site.

I recommend you double check the exact level of performance of the
competitive device(s). I was reported a number of inaccuracy
concerning their previous generation device.

Finally you get all these functionalities for nearly the same price.

Rgds,

Proxalert

Hi Mr. Knox:

As for the LSB (least significant bit) that also doesn't quite make
sense. First off is the question of whether it even SEES the LSB (I
personally do not think that it does). But even if it did, comparing
the grey code LSB between your xpndr and a received one tells you
nothing (other than your altitudes are not exactly equal). You two
could be 100 feet off, right on a transition level for the bit, and the
bits would be different. Or (I need to look, but I think the most
significant digits are last) you could be 10,000' apart and have the
same LSB.

I thought about this too (briefly) when Jose' first mentioned it. Assuming he
means the LSB in the usual sense, I didn't see how you could garner much info
from one bit in a Gray Code. (Gets philosophical with a Gray Code - I suppose
one could argue that, by definition, any one bit change in a Gray Code is an
"LSB.")

When I (briefly) started looking into this two years ago, I visited the
Airsport (?) web site (the guy who sells (sold?) the Altitude Nag?). He had
some White Papers on xponder stuff. Seems it's not quite so easy to decode
Mode C info?

From http://www.airsport-corp.com/modec.htm

[Each altitude code has an equivalent squawk code. The list of altitude codes
shows how that same data would decode as a squawk rather than altitude. But
each squawk code does not necessarily have an equivalent altitude. There are
4096 squawk codes but only 1280 altitude codes, one for each 100 foot increment
from -1200 to 126,700 ft.]

I've never seen the SUPR LED come on by itself. Curious. I *have* seen
it go on and off semi-randomly while tracking what is obviously the same
signal.

Flew to and from Phx Corona Phx, turning off our xponder or Mode C during parts
of the flight. SUPR LED still would come on with xponder off (and DME off).
Unless Customs has installed a new xponder for us or there's something in the
plane creating occasional noise that the ATD picks up (I didn't power down
anything else), I assume this is caused by outside aircraft. (Is he rejecting
TCAS interrogations?)

I can try your test and test my theory by turning off our Mode C and
seeing if suddenly I start getting Traffic Alerts on everyone.

Let me know. I have NEVER seen ANY difference in terms of traffic
alerts regardless of whether my transponder is on or off.

I ran Mode A only during various traffic alerts and when the SUPR LED came on
by itself. I concur - I cannot tell any difference in ATD operation when I'm
running Mode C vs. running Mode A. (Or xpnder off for that matter.)

So the plot thickens.

Hope this helps,

Mike Palmer
Excellence in Ergonomics

(MikeremlaP) wrote in
:

Flew to and from Phx Corona Phx, turning off our xponder or Mode C
during parts of the flight. SUPR LED still would come on with xponder
off (and DME off). Unless Customs has installed a new xponder for us
or there's something in the plane creating occasional noise that the
ATD picks up (I didn't power down anything else), I assume this is
caused by outside aircraft. (Is he rejecting TCAS interrogations?)

Check for that free xpndr from the DEA. G

TCAS interrogations are not "rejected" - they aren't seen. Same as the FAA
ground interrogations... different frequency.

Basically the SUPRA light just comes on if it receives a reply that is
above a certain very high power level (it then assumes it MUST be from your
aircraft). A more common problem is for it to *miss* it (i.e. doesn't
quite trigger the SUPRA sometimes) and it thinks that your own response is
rather an aircraft VERY CLOSE BY. Lights all the range lights and starts
shouting at you.

Flying formation with anyone??? G

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

To be up front I got a trafficscope and have been very pleased with
its performance. But your post made some points I felt I wanted to ask
or address.

"Check also our receiver dynamic : 60 db typical compared to 40 db:
This parameter gives you a good indication of the overall quality of
our radar receiver."

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't dynamic ability indicate range
of reception, not "quality" of the receiver? example 5NM or 10 NM? I
have been a HAM operator for over 6 years and my experience is that
S/N ratio is an indicator of "quality" not reception dynamics right?


"Our typical power consumption is 1 watt compared to 5 to 12 watts for
the TS."

I run my trafficscope off of the adapter which uses aircraft power, so
why should power consumption be of concern? even 20 watts is minimal
power draw on a 14 volt system. Does your unit have a battery
compartment or do you have to lug around a battery pack (like some
headsets) because frankly battery packs are more clutter.

As far as squawk goes most of the aircraft (I would say 90%) that I
fly around are on 1200 "VFR" so adding this would not be much of an
improvement to advisory conditions.

I saw the website, and it shows an altitude of "65" do you have a way
of showing how that is relative to my altitude? trafficscope gives me
"UP 500 feet" which instantly shows me how far up or below to look, so
by giving their actual altitude, wouldn't that leave the mathematics
up to the pilot to perform?

My last question is what is your company background in producing these
types of devices? Is this the first product they will produce? Has it
been Beta tested?





(Thierry) wrote in message . com...
"CriticalMass" wrote in message ...
"Thierry" wrote in message
om...

A new higher performance system will be available soon at a nearly
same
price of the VRX unit which will display simultaneously 3 threat
aircraft information including the aircraft SQUWAK. This new device
will also integrate an altitude alerter.

Intriguing news, but I must be missing something. Why do I care what code
my traffic is squawking? It's never mentioned except on initial contract
with ATC.

Hello,

First of all if a traffic is following you, could identify it by its
squawk number. If you don't have the SQ displayed you may think this
is a new traffic crossing your path. If you have it you could also ask
your ATC more info about a specific SQ. This will greatly help the ATC
to answer precisely.

You could also check if it's a VFR or not (1200, etc).

Displaying three threats simultaneoulsy will help you take the proper
flight level in order to avoid them all. ie : One threat "A" 200 ft
below, one 200 ft above "B". To avoid "A" You climb 200 ft and risk a
collision with "B".

Our device also distinghish threats squawking mode A only (no altitude
reported). Check if the other do the same.

Check also our receiver dynamic : 60 db typical compared to 40 db
which allow
us to offer a maximum range of 10 Nm instead of 5 Nm.

This parameter gives you a good indication of the overall quality of
our radar receiver.

Our typical power consumption is 1 watt compared to 5 to 12 watts for
the TS. This is a large difference. Imagine this small box on your
dashboard during a sunny day. Internal temperature will quickly exceed
the functional limit.
This will also impact the reliability of the device. Electronic
devices don't heat.

Last but not least you get an altitude alerter for free + free
lifetime software upgrade thru our web site.

I recommend you double check the exact level of performance of the
competitive device(s). I was reported a number of inaccuracy
concerning their previous generation device.

Finally you get all these functionalities for nearly the same price.

Rgds,

Proxalert

Dear Sir,


Dynamic :

Dynamic gives a good idea of signal to noise ratio so ability to 1)
receive far transmitter or/and 2) have a better signal quality. By the
way i'm an HAM for 10 years too.

Power consumption :
False : Drawing 1 or 15 watts is very different. Simply because at 15
watts the electronic will get very very hot and minimize life of the
electronic components. Both TS and Proxalert have a small package.

Battery : I don't understand your concern since your previously said
that you operate the unit from the aircraft power !!! Anyway at 15
watts six NiMh AA battery will provide 18 watts so around one hour of
autonomy.

Our two AA NiMH battery are integrated in the cigar plug cable and
will provide more than 2h30 of autonomy. Furthermore these batteries
will charge automatically so you are ALWAYS sure that they are fully
loaded.

Because our batteries are outside the Proxalert total weight is well
below other devices. Offering a better behavior during turbulences.
Stability is also ensured by our patented fixing pods.

Obviously The Proxalert R5 displays altitude in both absolute or
relative.
Some pilots prefer absolute some other relative. You simply have to
set the proper option thru our intuitive menu.

By menu you can also set the kind of rank you prefer by altitude or by
distance
as our device displays up to three threats simultaneously.

All options are saved and recovered during the next power on.

Concerning squawk i disagree with your statement. As you get
controlled
the ATC will assign a dedicated squawk to your aircraft. Not to add
that you may be in conflict with VFR but also IFR. This is very
frequent when flying cross country. Anyway you get all these
advantages at nearly the TS price.

At Proxalert we only announce products when they are mature so no fear
to have. Our in-house Engineering Department is made up of talented
engineers coming from the very big name in small and large computers
....
Consequently the R5 is designed and manufactured to provide years of
excellent services.

My turn to ask some questions/remarks :

1) If the TS detects transponders answering mode A only ? Proxalert
R5 does it.
2) What is the expected internal temperature when the TS is under a
bright sun ?
By the way you can actually check the Proxalert R5 internal
temperature from
the system menu option.
3) Is the TS fully certified as a rack mountable device ? where to get
the
official form ?
4) Is the TS got FCC Part 15 certificate ?
5) Wake turbulence : It is misleading to say that only big irons are
equipped
with Mode S transponders. More and more light IFR are also
equipped.
To my opinion this may lead to false wake turbulence adding
stress for nothing.

Whatever proximity device you fly i wish you good and safe flights,

Regards,

Proxalert



(BHelman) wrote in message om...
To be up front I got a trafficscope and have been very pleased with
its performance. But your post made some points I felt I wanted to ask
or address.

"Check also our receiver dynamic : 60 db typical compared to 40 db:
This parameter gives you a good indication of the overall quality of
our radar receiver."

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't dynamic ability indicate range
of reception, not "quality" of the receiver? example 5NM or 10 NM? I
have been a HAM operator for over 6 years and my experience is that
S/N ratio is an indicator of "quality" not reception dynamics right?


"Our typical power consumption is 1 watt compared to 5 to 12 watts for
the TS."

I run my trafficscope off of the adapter which uses aircraft power, so
why should power consumption be of concern? even 20 watts is minimal
power draw on a 14 volt system. Does your unit have a battery
compartment or do you have to lug around a battery pack (like some
headsets) because frankly battery packs are more clutter.

As far as squawk goes most of the aircraft (I would say 90%) that I
fly around are on 1200 "VFR" so adding this would not be much of an
improvement to advisory conditions.

I saw the website, and it shows an altitude of "65" do you have a way
of showing how that is relative to my altitude? trafficscope gives me
"UP 500 feet" which instantly shows me how far up or below to look, so
by giving their actual altitude, wouldn't that leave the mathematics
up to the pilot to perform?

My last question is what is your company background in producing these
types of devices? Is this the first product they will produce? Has it
been Beta tested?





(Thierry) wrote in message . com...
"CriticalMass" wrote in message ...
"Thierry" wrote in message
om...

A new higher performance system will be available soon at a nearly
same
price of the VRX unit which will display simultaneously 3 threat
aircraft information including the aircraft SQUWAK. This new device
will also integrate an altitude alerter.

Intriguing news, but I must be missing something. Why do I care what code
my traffic is squawking? It's never mentioned except on initial contract
with ATC.

Hello,

First of all if a traffic is following you, could identify it by its
squawk number. If you don't have the SQ displayed you may think this
is a new traffic crossing your path. If you have it you could also ask
your ATC more info about a specific SQ. This will greatly help the ATC
to answer precisely.

You could also check if it's a VFR or not (1200, etc).

Displaying three threats simultaneoulsy will help you take the proper
flight level in order to avoid them all. ie : One threat "A" 200 ft
below, one 200 ft above "B". To avoid "A" You climb 200 ft and risk a
collision with "B".

Our device also distinghish threats squawking mode A only (no altitude
reported). Check if the other do the same.

Check also our receiver dynamic : 60 db typical compared to 40 db
which allow
us to offer a maximum range of 10 Nm instead of 5 Nm.

This parameter gives you a good indication of the overall quality of
our radar receiver.

Our typical power consumption is 1 watt compared to 5 to 12 watts for
the TS. This is a large difference. Imagine this small box on your
dashboard during a sunny day. Internal temperature will quickly exceed
the functional limit.
This will also impact the reliability of the device. Electronic
devices don't heat.

Last but not least you get an altitude alerter for free + free
lifetime software upgrade thru our web site.

I recommend you double check the exact level of performance of the
competitive device(s). I was reported a number of inaccuracy
concerning their previous generation device.

Finally you get all these functionalities for nearly the same price.

Rgds,

Proxalert

Basically the SUPRA light just comes on if it receives a reply that is
above a certain very high power level (it then assumes it MUST be from your
aircraft). A more common problem is for it to *miss* it (i.e. doesn't
quite trigger the SUPRA sometimes) and it thinks that your own response is
rather an aircraft VERY CLOSE BY. Lights all the range lights and starts
shouting at you.

Sitting on the ground the other day (engine off, avionics off, just sitting in
front of hangar watching planes), I noticed that the SUPR LED comes on even
with only one bar on the range gauge lit. Not sure I know what the SURP light
means any more when it's not announcing my xponder reply. Thought it meant
traffic was being rejected outside the 2500' cylinder, but clearly, something
else is going on here.

Mike Palmer
Excellence in Ergonomics