Need advice on handling airplane damage

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 22:40:41 GMT, "GE" wrote:

Section 830.5 sounds as if we do not
have to report it, but section 830.15 seems contradictory. Can anyone help
me sort this out?


Incident vs. accident is one of those questions that is up for
continual debate. It depends specifically on what phase of flight and
the amount / type of damage. Since we can't see the plane and don't
have all the details, I'd suggest giving the NTSB a call to see how
they want you to handle it. Whatever the outcome you'll do what they
think you should do. Even if they want you to report it and it seems
to you you may not have to, reporting it will save alot of hassle if
they decide to persue it in the future.

I don't think any harm comes from being cautious in this case.

HTH and Good luck.

z

call NTSB anyway.. let them review the details and let you know..

BT

"GE" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all of the advice so far. Unfortunately, the plane is not at
"home". The damage was at a field in a neighboring state, so I haven't
seen it. The plane is not flyable. There was damage to the nose gear and a
prop strike. My partner is going to contact the insurance company, we'll
see what happens from here.

Another question: I read part 830 of the FAR, and I'm uncertain whether or
not we have to report it to the NTSB. Section 830.5 sounds as if we do
not have to report it, but section 830.15 seems contradictory. Can anyone
help me sort this out?


"GE" wrote in message
...
Being new to airplane ownership, I would appreciate some advice from the
more seasoned guys out there. This weekend, my partner wrecked our plane.
He's okay, which is certainly the most important thing. I'm still not
certain of the details, but it sounds pretty bad. Of course I'll be
calling the insurance company today. The reason I'm writing is to gather
information on how we need to proceed from this point. I know there are
required reports, but primarily I am concerned with insurance pitfalls. I
have dealt with insurance claims and automobiles before, but I don't know
if there are any similarities or not. I do not know how to find reputable
repair shops or how to have the plane delivered to one. I don't know what
point must be reached for the plane to be totaled. In other words, I am
looking for any advice that I can so that I can make informed decisions
about the situation.

Thanks in advance for your help

FAA must also be notified of any accident or incident. Call your
friendly local FSDO.
http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/faa/8400/8400_vol7/7_001_02.pdf

The NTSB must decide whether it is incident or accident. It does not
sound like the plane is substantially damaged and there were no
injuries, so I would bet this will be considered an incident. NTSB will
be notified by the FAA.

But first, your partner should fill out a NASA form. Yesterday.
http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 22:40:41 GMT, "GE" wrote:

Read your policy, but most will pay for recovering the aircraft and
relocating it to either a storage facility or a repair shop. Since
your partner is OK (thank goodness),with any luck, it will go to a
repair shop. When people get hurt / killed, the wreckage typically
goes to a storage facility and stays there (sometimes for years) while
the lawyers fight in court.

I help recover wrecked aircraft for an outfit that is usually hired
by the insurance companies, and we're usually on scene within
1-3 days of the incident/accident. In other words, call your
insurance company and let them know what happened, they
will take it from there. I think you will find that nose gear failure
+ prop-strike = substantial damage.... (it'd be best to call/report
to the NTSB/FAA). Usually, if damage to a propeller can't be
"field-dressed" to make it airworthy again, it is a prop-strike and
you would at least need to have the crank dialed and get a ferry
prop + ferry permit to get the aircraft home. Seeing as how the
nosegear folded/failed (? assumed from your post), again, I would
think it would classify as substantial damage. Come to think of it,
all 20+ aircraft I have either seen recovered or been directly
involved with over the last year or so have had "substantial damage"
incurred when you read the NTSB reports (some weren't that bad... a
couple of taildraggers flipped over onto their backs, a C-210 landed
gear up, etc.). Some were quite bad indeed (nothing left but burned
up junk).

Once again, glad to hear your partner is OK. The airplane can
be fixed and/or replaced.

Bela P. Havasreti

Thanks for all of the advice so far. Unfortunately, the plane is not at
"home". The damage was at a field in a neighboring state, so I haven't seen
it. The plane is not flyable. There was damage to the nose gear and a prop
strike. My partner is going to contact the insurance company, we'll see what
happens from here.

Another question: I read part 830 of the FAR, and I'm uncertain whether or
not we have to report it to the NTSB. Section 830.5 sounds as if we do not
have to report it, but section 830.15 seems contradictory. Can anyone help
me sort this out?


"GE" wrote in message
...
Being new to airplane ownership, I would appreciate some advice from the
more seasoned guys out there. This weekend, my partner wrecked our plane.
He's okay, which is certainly the most important thing. I'm still not
certain of the details, but it sounds pretty bad. Of course I'll be
calling the insurance company today. The reason I'm writing is to gather
information on how we need to proceed from this point. I know there are
required reports, but primarily I am concerned with insurance pitfalls. I
have dealt with insurance claims and automobiles before, but I don't know
if there are any similarities or not. I do not know how to find reputable
repair shops or how to have the plane delivered to one. I don't know what
point must be reached for the plane to be totaled. In other words, I am
looking for any advice that I can so that I can make informed decisions
about the situation.

Thanks in advance for your help

The insurance company is required to repair your plane or pay the stated
value. That's it.

"Dude" wrote in message
...
It has been done by both auto and plane owners. Its not easy though, and
if it's a small amount, they know you won't hire an attourney.

It is mostly done on newer planes, where the loss is obvious, or much more
expensive planes where it is worth fighting over.

You have to be careful though, because if you are underinsured, this can
drive them to total your plane when you might not want them to.



"GE" wrote in message
...
That sounds good but is it "do-able"?

"Dude" wrote in message
...
The only advice I have is to ensure that you get compensation for lost
value after the repairs. If your plane was never damaged before, its
value has just dropped, and you should be compensated unless they
managed to write a clause in the contract that says otherwise.

Let's say your partner broke the engine mount on a 50k cessna. Even
after repairs, it will not be worth 50k any more. Maybe 40 to 45, so
you want a check for 5k or more in addition to the repairs.


"GE" wrote in message
...
Being new to airplane ownership, I would appreciate some advice from
the more seasoned guys out there. This weekend, my partner wrecked our
plane. He's okay, which is certainly the most important thing. I'm
still not certain of the details, but it sounds pretty bad. Of course
I'll be calling the insurance company today. The reason I'm writing is
to gather information on how we need to proceed from this point. I know
there are required reports, but primarily I am concerned with insurance
pitfalls. I have dealt with insurance claims and automobiles before,
but I don't know if there are any similarities or not. I do not know
how to find reputable repair shops or how to have the plane delivered
to one. I don't know what point must be reached for the plane to be
totaled. In other words, I am looking for any advice that I can so that
I can make informed decisions about the situation.

Thanks in advance for your help

GE wrote:
Thanks for all of the advice so far. Unfortunately, the plane is not at
"home". The damage was at a field in a neighboring state, so I haven't seen
it. The plane is not flyable. There was damage to the nose gear and a prop
strike. My partner is going to contact the insurance company, we'll see what
happens from here.

Another question: I read part 830 of the FAR, and I'm uncertain whether or
not we have to report it to the NTSB. Section 830.5 sounds as if we do not
have to report it, but section 830.15 seems contradictory. Can anyone help
me sort this out?


Since you won't tell us what happened I'll make the assumption that your
partner had a hard landing. That is not substantial damage and the NTSB
nor the FAA need to be informed. Looks like you'll be getting a new
prop or possibly repairing the damaged on, an engine teardown and
repairs to the nose gear and firewall.

Sorry for not telling exactly what happened. I really didn't have all of the
details at first.

Now that I know, he basically lost control upon landing and left the runway,
where he ran across a ditch, shearing the nose wheel and striking the prop.
I have been in contact with the insurance company, a damage assessor, and a
local A&P. In fact, the assessor called as I was writing this. He is going
to email me some digital pictures of the plane.

The prop is bent and the nose wheel is heavily damaged. They will have to do
an engine teardown also. So we'll see what the estimate is, but the
insurance should cover it.



GE wrote:
Thanks for all of the advice so far. Unfortunately, the plane is not at
"home". The damage was at a field in a neighboring state, so I haven't
seen it. The plane is not flyable. There was damage to the nose gear and
a prop strike. My partner is going to contact the insurance company,
we'll see what happens from here.

Another question: I read part 830 of the FAR, and I'm uncertain whether
or not we have to report it to the NTSB. Section 830.5 sounds as if we
do not have to report it, but section 830.15 seems contradictory. Can
anyone help me sort this out?


Since you won't tell us what happened I'll make the assumption that your
partner had a hard landing. That is not substantial damage and the NTSB
nor the FAA need to be informed. Looks like you'll be getting a new prop
or possibly repairing the damaged on, an engine teardown and repairs to
the nose gear and firewall.

i doubt that's gonna happen.


"Dude" wrote in message
...
The only advice I have is to ensure that you get compensation for lost
value after the repairs. If your plane was never damaged before, its
value has just dropped, and you should be compensated unless they managed
to write a clause in the contract that says otherwise.

Let's say your partner broke the engine mount on a 50k cessna. Even after
repairs, it will not be worth 50k any more. Maybe 40 to 45, so you want a
check for 5k or more in addition to the repairs.


"GE" wrote in message
...
Being new to airplane ownership, I would appreciate some advice from the
more seasoned guys out there. This weekend, my partner wrecked our plane.
He's okay, which is certainly the most important thing. I'm still not
certain of the details, but it sounds pretty bad. Of course I'll be
calling the insurance company today. The reason I'm writing is to gather
information on how we need to proceed from this point. I know there are
required reports, but primarily I am concerned with insurance pitfalls. I
have dealt with insurance claims and automobiles before, but I don't know
if there are any similarities or not. I do not know how to find reputable
repair shops or how to have the plane delivered to one. I don't know what
point must be reached for the plane to be totaled. In other words, I am
looking for any advice that I can so that I can make informed decisions
about the situation.

Thanks in advance for your help

1. Take photos. Lots of photos.
2. The insurance company will have an adjuster who will examine the
aircraft. Usually the adjuster in an area works for multiple
insurance companies. And usually you have no say in the matter.
3. There are only a handful of repair shops that can
handle major damage. If you're lucky, one of them will be in the
neighborhood.
4. Either way, you'll have to pay someone to ferry it to a shop
for repairs. Again, the insurance company and/or the repair shop
will have someone they use all the time for this. They'll take
care of getting the paperwork done and a ferry permit.
5. Take more photos!
6. Get copies of EVERYTHING on paper. All estimates and paperwork
from the adjuster. All estimates and paperwork from all the shops
that might work on the aircraft. Was there an FAA incident or
accident report? Get a copy of that. Did the local constabulary
show up and get a report? Get a copy of that. Were there
witnesses who provided statements to the constabulary? (just *love*
that word!) Get copies.

Do I sound like a lawyer? Not really (well, I am a law school drop out
but that's irrelevant). But I have been thru the process. Fortunately,
it was rather painless but very time-consuming. A really good insurance
company and a really good shop (an hour's drive away, so I could go
check on it) but it did take twice as long as estimated.

Best part? 3 things:

1) shop re-welded the step for free
2) shop found a crack in the landing gear that 3 years later was declared
an AD. The shop replaced the gear.
3) shop did some extra painting for me on the rudder (someone in the
past had used bad spray paint)

My cost? $600, all for the new landing gear.
Cost to insurance company? $20,000.

And my insurance went DOWN the following year!

BTW -- check your policy. You may have a clause that states the
insurance company will cover rental costs while your aircraft is
being repaired.