Aren't You Happy You Voted For Baby Bush? (ATC Privatization)

"Ryan Dorosh" wrote in message
...

Canada has a private, non profit ATC called NavCanada. So far it's worked
out quite well going from public to private. NavCanada has some of the
best
equipment and software in the world now. Way ahead of the rest of the
world
for technology. Sometimes, I think having ATC in the hands of a non profit
group is the best way to go. Less hurdles to make beneficial changes.


US ATC is in the hands of a non-profit group now.

Chip Jones wrote:



Effective August 1, 2003, NavCanada will be increasing air navigation
service fees (read ATC user fees) by 6.9 %.

At the annual Schafer work party two weekends ago the manager of
Edmonton Tower was there in his Piper Dakota. Their acquisition rules
are much better than ours. If they need something they go to the store
and buy it. No red tape. The controller workweek just increased from
32 hours per week to 36 hours due to the budget shortfall. Their towers
are glass cockpits. No paper strips, drop tubes, etc. It's all touch
screen, the FAA is building a new tower here in BIL starting this fall,
it would be nice to have some of that stuff. The user fees for an
airplane that is 5000 pounds or less is a flat $60 Canadian per year.
In the grand scheme of things that is nothing, I pay more than that to
the state of Montana each year for my "tabs". Having said all that I
still wouldn't want their whole system, just parts of it.

On 30 Jul 2003 10:26:24 -0700, (AJ) wrote in
Message-Id: :

As my dear old dad used to say: The masses are asses and always elect
the government they richly deserve.

I always say, ~50% of the population possesses a 2-digit IQ.


--

Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts.
-- Larry Dighera,

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:12:03 -0400, "Chip Jones"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

Prior to its filing for bankruptcy protection
earlier this year in 2003, Air Canada Airlines and her affiliates owed
NavCanada C$45 million in unpaid ATC user fees.

This is troubling. Now Canadian ATC is a financial lender. Is that
appropriate? Doubtful.

If the cause of the 6.9% hike in Canadian user fees is due to Air
Canada Airlines and her affiliates owing C$45 million to NavCanada, it
is the users of the system who are ultimately financing the airline.

The beauty of the current system of collecting tax based, US ATC
funding is, that it grounds the airline when they are unable to meet
their fuel bills. It also collects an amount form each user
PROPORTIONAL to their use of ATC services and facilities. A flat
annual fee changes the rules of the game entirely.

It sounds to me like NavCanada is running the remaining major national
commercial user right on out of the airline business.

It sounds to me like NavCanada inappropriately enabled that airline to
avoid bankruptcy for an extended period.

--

Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts.
-- Larry Dighera,

50%? I thought it was part of Demorgan's Law (80-20 rule)?


Larry Dighera wrote in
:

On 30 Jul 2003 10:26:24 -0700, (AJ) wrote in
Message-Id: :

As my dear old dad used to say: The masses are asses and always elect
the government they richly deserve.

I always say, ~50% of the population possesses a 2-digit IQ.

"Ryan Dorosh" wrote in message
...
30"x30" Sony flat, touch panels. No need for paper strips. Like the one
user
above said it's all touch glass equipment in the tower cabs and
terminals/IFR. The new Atlantic GAATS system. From what I've read, it's
some
of the best ATC technology around. And it all happened after going
private -
in a matter of a few years I might add. They built new towers at quite a
few
airports and installed new radar systems across the country. As a pilot I
have no complaints other than they stripped down FSS service.



No need for paper strips... that says it all.

Chip, ZTL

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:12:03 -0400, "Chip Jones"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

[snipped]


It sounds to me like NavCanada is running the remaining major national
commercial user right on out of the airline business.

It sounds to me like NavCanada inappropriately enabled that airline to
avoid bankruptcy for an extended period.


Isn't Air Canada THE national/international Canadian airline? As in: the
Canadian government and the nation of Canada have a vested interest in
keeping ACA afloat for national reasons? What happens to Canada's economy
if ACA goes under? Serious questions here too- I know squat about Canada's
airline situation except that Air Canada is the major game in town...

Chip, ZTL

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 03:54:04 GMT, Newps wrote in
Message-Id: wp0Wa.15560$Oz4.5543@rwcrnsc54:

The user fees for an airplane that is 5000 pounds or less is a flat
$60 Canadian per year. In the grand scheme of things that is nothing,
I pay more than that to the state of Montana each year for my "tabs".

Have you any idea what you pay into the Aviation Trust Fund via
aviation fuel taxes annually?

Having said all that I still wouldn't want their whole system,
just parts of it.

My fear is that a privatized US ATC would be like putting the fox in
charge of the henhouse, because it will likely be run by airline
industry airplane manufacturer(s). I would have a hard time believing
Boeing or LockMart, or ... could reframe from influencing the redesign
the NAS to suit their customers' requests at the expense of the equity
with which GA is afforded in today's NAS.

Here's some supporting information about that notion:


----------------------------------------------------------
AOPA ePilot Volume 5, Issue 31 August 1, 2003
----------------------------------------------------------

AOPA PROTECTS PILOT INTERESTS IN FAA NAVIGATION PLAN
The FAA has put out its roadmap for the future of aerial
navigation, and the bottom line for general aviation pilots is
that today's avionics equipment will continue to serve GA pilots
well into the future, thanks to AOPA advocacy. The Roadmap for
Performance-Based Navigation is an air carrier-driven plan to
tighten navigation tolerances and increase airspace capacity. It
creates a system in which an aircraft must meet specific avionics
capabilities (Required Navigation Performance or RNP) to use
airways and arrival and departure procedures in busy terminal
airspace (Class B). AOPA battled to make sure that VFR aircraft
would be exempted from RNP requirements, that IFR aircraft could
participate using today's IFR-certified GPS receivers, and that
RNP would provide benefits for GA pilots. See (
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsite...03-3-046x.html ).

--

Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts.
-- Larry Dighera,

Larry Dighera wrote in
:

On 30 Jul 2003 10:26:24 -0700, (AJ) wrote in
Message-Id: :

As my dear old dad used to say: The masses are asses and always elect
the government they richly deserve.

I always say, ~50% of the population possesses a 2-digit IQ.


On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 11:06:44 GMT, Judah wrote in
Message-Id: :

50%? I thought it was part of Demorgan's Law (80-20 rule)?

What made you think that?

http://www.cs.iupui.edu/~ddillow/N301/deMorgan.html
--

Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts.
-- Larry Dighera,

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 10:37:04 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

I was under the impression that Larry was referring to the fact that a 100
IQ is supposed to be a person of "normal" intelligence. That is, right at
the middle of the bell curve. Thus, half the population will have a lower
IQ, and half will have a higher one.

Written by someone who obviously possesses a 3-digit IQ. :-)


--

Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts.
-- Larry Dighera,