Landing a warrior

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 20:54:11 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

My Warrior book says 63 knots, but who's counting? Why not full flaps????
I
have a zillion hours instructing in Cherokees/Warriors and I can't
remember
ever teaching a student to use two notches for landing.

The only time to use two notches is (a) in strong cross winds or (b) in
squirrelly high winds.


I used full flaps regardless. It's what I was taught and it always
worked well. OTOH that approach may not be for everyone...At that
time the instructors here used the same as the FAA at the time.."If
yah got 'em, use 'em".

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

While it's not necessary, two notches give you a flatter, slightly faster
approach that lets you "bust through" the cross wind or wind shear a bit
better than the steeper, slower full-flaps approach...

ya the warrior is bad about floating. what I do when I fly one now is similar to
how I land my arrow, I dont really flare, just a few seconds before touching
down, I pull back only slightly onthe yoke so the mains touch first then as soon
as they touch I pull back more to keep the weight off the nose wheel. keeping
your nose low untill just before the mains touch down and only a slight flare
will help you break through the ground effect better. the more you flare the
more you float.

Dan Moos wrote:

I am a 130 hour PP, and the bulk of my time is in various cessnas (152s and
172's) I've always thought myself decent at landing

Until now. I've recently joined a flying club that has a c182 and a warrior.
My my last 20 or so hours are in the warrior. I bet I 've gotten as few as
5 landings that I'm proud of in that time. Nothing dangerous, just massive
floating, followed by clunking it in with maybe even a bounce or 2. Usually
just one. I'm aware of the inhanced ground effect present in a low-wing
plane. I fly my aproaches at around 65 knots with the second noch of flaps.
I seem to have similar struggles with no and full flaps.

Again, these are all landings that my passengers think are great. I'm just
used to getting great results in the cessnas, and wish to do the same in the
warrior.

you guys are gonna stall those things.
I land the warrior at 80 kts and 2 notches of flaps.. 57 kts..no way.....short
final is suppose to be 65 kts in a warrior II ..

William Plummer wrote:

The PA28-161 POH I had said Vs0 is 44 kts. 1.3 * 44=57, which is the FAA
recommended speed on final approach. That's exactly what my instructor
insisted on when I was doing the short field landings (on a 1500' runway!).

William Plummer wrote:
The PA28-161 POH I had said Vs0 is 44 kts. 1.3 * 44=57, which is the FAA
recommended speed on final approach.

I stand to be corrected, but I believe the FAA recommends the 1.3 factor
only if the approach speed is not stated in the POH/AFM.

Hilton

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 00:46:23 -0700, jeff wrote:

you guys are gonna stall those things.

Why would you stall?

POH says: Short Field take-off @ 25deg flap is accelerate and maintain
44-52KIAS (depending on weight) until clear of obstacle. Can't see how
you can stall at 57Kt and 40 deg flap, especially when landing and
coming into ground effect.

I land the warrior at 80 kts and 2 notches of flaps.. 57 kts..no way.....short
final is suppose to be 65 kts in a warrior II ..


Are you really meaning Kts or mph?

Our 1979 Warrior II says 63Kt at threshold and FULL flap (assuming
little X-Wind). Why use higher speed on landing it can only wear the
tyres out and require more braking on a short runway? More speed and
you float.


William Plummer wrote:

The PA28-161 POH I had said Vs0 is 44 kts. 1.3 * 44=57, which is the FAA
recommended speed on final approach. That's exactly what my instructor
insisted on when I was doing the short field landings (on a 1500' runway!).



E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot

I always carry a little power in my PA28-140 into the landing, but there are
definitely two schools of thought about this. Whatever side of the debate
you fall on, I think everyone will agree that you should occasionally
practice the power-off variant for the day when murphy is your copilot.

I trained exclusively in C-172's, then transitioned to a rental warrior, as
well as a 182RG, then finally purchased my 140. I had the hardest time
learning to land in the 140! Here's my observations:

- you sit lower in cherokees, this will fool you a few times if you're used
to skyhawks
- with full flaps, the hershey bar cherokees come down like a brick. if
you're going power-off, use a steeper approach.
- i approach between 65 and 70 in my cherokee, whereas skyhawks are quite
comfortable at 60. slower landings in a cherokee with full flaps are hard
to squeak (at least for me). this seems to be a feature of the hershey bar
as I never had this problem in the warrior.
- floating: i actually had more problems floating in the 172 than the
warrior, go figure. in the 140, any floating will come from excess
airspeed. it seems to be easier (for me), to stick in a short landing using
power-off with a steep approach.

For what it's worth, it seems hard to make a great or terrible landing in
the cherokee. Most of my landings are average with the occasional clunker
and the occasional greaser.

mark

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:ZCS_a.146353$YN5.95317@sccrnsc01...
You didn't mention if you are doing power-on or power-off approaches. In
a Warrior, unless you are following other traffic around the pattern,
your approaches should all be power off.

???

I don't think I ever landed our Warrior power off, in the 450 hours we put
on her...even on short fields.

Carry a little power into the flare -- you'll be amazed at the greasers
you
can pull off!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"jeff" wrote in message ...
ya the warrior is bad about floating.

Well, no big surprise if you're actually flying it 80 knots on final.

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 00:38:14 -0700, jeff wrote:

ya the warrior is bad about floating. what I do when I fly one now is similar to
how I land my arrow, I dont really flare, just a few seconds before touching
down, I pull back only slightly onthe yoke so the mains touch first then as soon
as they touch I pull back more to keep the weight off the nose wheel. keeping
your nose low untill just before the mains touch down and only a slight flare
will help you break through the ground effect better. the more you flare the
more you float.

Then you are too fast.

Flown by the book they are easy to land and no floating.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
snip

"John Harper" wrote in message news:1060971975.830175@sj-nntpcache-3...
I've only got 0.8 hrs in a Cherokee, but as a mainly-Cessna pilot
with some low wing time (SR20, Grob, Mooney) I do think there
is a distinct difference in landing technique between low and high
wing planes. The Cessnas (152, 172, 182, 182RG) land nicely in
almost a full-stall attitude (or even true full-stall). I've never managed
a nice landing in a low-wing plane that way - it can be done but I've
also always been told not to try. What seems to work well is a fairly
flat flare and just let the plane drift onto the runway.

I always land my Mooney full stall, horn blaring, yoke to the stops as
the wheels hit. I think its easier in a low wing because you get a
soft cushion as you flare rather than the drop of a high wing.

-Robert

John Harper wrote:

I've only got 0.8 hrs in a Cherokee, but as a mainly-Cessna pilot
with some low wing time (SR20, Grob, Mooney) I do think there
is a distinct difference in landing technique between low and high
wing planes. The Cessnas (152, 172, 182, 182RG) land nicely in
almost a full-stall attitude (or even true full-stall). I've never managed
a nice landing in a low-wing plane that way - it can be done but I've
also always been told not to try. What seems to work well is a fairly
flat flare and just let the plane drift onto the runway.

Get some tailwheel training.
That will teach you how to make full stall landings in any airplane you
fly.