Help me clear up my brain fart

The instruments may well be a VFR crutch. This all started by my suggesting
that pilots who are still at the stage where they need a crutch sometimes,
make use of it when they've gotten in a situation where many pilots have
screwed up. Since we are clarifying, I was didn't mean to say (although it
wasn't my best and clearest piece of newsgroup banter) that they should
transition to the instruments and use them to fly through the turn, just
that it would be a good time to check that were still comfortably within the
envelope.

While the underlying cause may well have been lack of proper training or
proficiency, there are certainly a lot of pilots who wish they had checked
their airspeed during their last base to final turn. I wish we could hear
from them but their computer access is kinda blocked right now....

--
Roger Long

Peter Duniho wrote in message
...
"Roger Long" om wrote
in
message .. .
Well, now you're doing it. I never said 50%. Dividing time properly
could
be 5% / 95% or even 1% / 99%

You're right. That figure was simply an example, my interpretation of
more
general and vague comments.

But the actual figure doesn't matter that much. IMHO, any non-zero amount
of time spent watching the instruments while making a downwind-to-base or
base-to-final turn while in the pattern is too much time. That's for any
kind of turn, but becomes especially true in the overshoot case.
Transitioning to instrument flight (as your original post suggested) while
attempting to reintercept final approach in a VFR pattern is just plain
wrong.

Pete

Ah.

mike regish

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

"mike regish" wrote in message
news:IBxsb.184901$e01.665122@attbi_s02...
Huh?

Just what I said. Skid is usually caused by the same direction
control rudder input as the stick, just too much. Slips are usually
indicated by crosscontrolled inputs. Of course there are exceptions
to both.

Thing that got me was that when you put in that extra rudder, the plane will
want to bank more in that direction also. The pilot, not wanting to bank
more will apply opposite aileron. Then it becomes cross controlled.

mike regish

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

"mike regish" wrote in message
news:IBxsb.184901$e01.665122@attbi_s02...
Huh?

Just what I said. Skid is usually caused by the same direction
control rudder input as the stick, just too much. Slips are usually
indicated by crosscontrolled inputs. Of course there are exceptions
to both.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 at 19:35:28 in message
, Ken Hornstein
wrote:
In article ,
Peter Duniho wrote:
[Snip]

Now, to demonstrate this in an airplane, fly a level slip. That is, in
level flight bank to one direction or the other and use the rudder to hold
the heading constant. You'll find your body trying to slide toward the
downhill side of the airplane. This is your "butt" telling you that you are
in uncoordinated flight. You might need a pretty decent bank angle for you
to notice this, but any airplane ought to be able to slip with a large
enough angle that you can feel what we're talking about.

Well, hm ... I don't know what to say. I've certainly done plenty of
slips, with the ball pegged at one end of the tube, but I don't really
recall feeling anything like you describe.

You can also do the same exercise with the skid. In level flight, yaw the
aircraft with the rudder while keeping the wings level with the aileron.
Use a lot of rudder input. Again, your body will try to slide, only this
time it will be toward the outside of the yaw or turn. And again, this is
your "butt" telling you that you are in uncoordinated flight.

Again, I've done these yaws, mostly for my own curiousity; I've
certainly felt a sensation during the yaw motion, but I don't feel
anything once the yaw is stopped.

And why should you? If an object is travelling at a steady speed in a
straight line then the only thing you should be able to notice is that
the 1 g of gravity is slightly inclined. You should notice a slip with a
30 degree bank all right but small ones would not be very noticeable.
What we notice is also closely connected to what we expect to notice. So
if you expect a given sensation you may not notice it!

I hesitate to put forward anything from my very limited flying
experience from 60 years ago here with all the experience there is.
However I do recall that my instructor never even drew my attention to
the old 'turn and bank' indicator, nor did I ever look at it. I did
steep turns both dual and solo and a couple of dual spins in a Tiger
Moth. When approaching to land I only looked at the speed to make sure
it was right for the degree of flap and to trim to that speed.
Revcounter, altimeter and airspeed were the important ones. Speed was
important if you did a 'go-around' as the flap trim change was quite
large. Flap was lowered in three steps. Final approach with full flap
showed 45 mph would you believe?

I remember on one occasion the grass field was soggy and we had to land
on the runway ( I was used to looking at the windsock and landing into
wind on the grass). I had had a very little training in cross wind
landing but on this occasion as I approached the runway I think I may
have forgotten about the possibility of a cross wind.

I was nicely lined up when I noticed a peculiar wind roar. I realised
that I must be moving sideways and that air was coming through the
poorly shut window. I detected no corresponding sensation. What I had
done was to line up on the runway with crossed controls without ever
giving it any conscious thought. I undid the control inputs and turned
slightly to crab as I had been taught. Landed with a slight squeal of
tyres as I needed more practice to kick the crab off at the right
moment. The aircraft (British Taylorcraft Auster Autocrat) had such a
short landing roll that I could land slightly diagonal on the runway
with no problem at all. The wind was light and so was the cross wind
otherwise my instructor would not have let me off solo.

That was along time ago.

[Snip]
--
David CL Francis