Madness

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:32:17 GMT "Dudley Henriques" wrote:


"Jeb" wrote in message
om...
Flight Sim enquiry raises terror alert
By Andrew Orlowski in Las Vegas
Posted: 08/01/2004 at 22:39 GMT
A mother's enquiry about buying Microsoft Flight Simulator for her
ten-year-old son prompted a night-time visit to her home from a state
trooper.

Julie Olearcek, a USAF Reserve pilot made the enquiry at a Staples
store in Massachusetts, home to an earlier bout of hysteria, during
the Salem witch trials.

So alarmed was the Staples clerk at the prospect of the ten year old
learning to fly, that he informed the police, the Greenfield Recorder
reports. The authorities moved into action, leaving nothing to chance.
A few days later, Olearcek was alarmed to discover a state trooper
flashing a torch into to her home through a sliding glass door at 8:30
pm on a rainy night.

Olearcek is a regular Staples customer and schools her son at home.
The Staples manager simply explained that staff were obeying advice.
Shortly before Christmas, the FBI issued a terror alert to beware of
drivers with maps, or reference books.

At one time it was rare to find US citizens, in the safest and most
prosperous country in the world, jumping at their own shadows. Now we
only note how high.

It could also be noted that incidents like this are isolated rather than the
general norm. This specific incident was overplayed because the person

It could be noted but it isn't true. There are plenty of knee-jerks like this
going on everyday. Do you think every one makes the news?


involved on the receiving end was a pilot. People are not jumping at their

This makes no sense. In what way was it overplayed? The person involved
was 10 years old. It was overplayed because our rights to freedom are
being trampled.


own shadows in America. If anything, there's a huge problem with people


People are shooting at their own shadows. 10,000 gun related per year.
(or more??)

generally beginning to take on a "relaxed" attitude about the country being
hit again.
These incidents are going to happen, and they're going to happen again, so
you better get used to it. When you have retail store managers with good


It's surprising to think that anyone could buy into the drivel you seem
to have bought into. Wait until you're hauled off and detained with no
reason given.


intentions but absolutely no training in security matters at all calling
meetings and "briefing" young impressionable sales clerks on the importance
of reporting "anything suspicious" because they have received a flyer from
"headquarters" or seen something on the nightly news, this kind of thing is
going to happen.
The bottom line is that we're caught between what we should be doing to be
secure, and what we're actually doing to be secure. It's a mess out there.
There's some security, but not nearly enough has been done. We're caught
between our freedom and how much of that freedom we're willing to give up
for security. It's a HUGE problem that's filled with pot holes. We have


There are not enough freedoms to give up to get the safety you seem to think
we can get.


every faction with an agenda to grind flailing away at every attempt to make
the nation more secure. In fact, I think it's safe to say, from what I've
seen so far at least, that we're as afraid and suspicious of our own
government as we are of the terrorist situation, perhaps with reason,
perhaps not...who the hell knows?


Well our own government has lied to us so many times recently you don't
know what to believe do you? They've done all kinds of horrible things to our
own people. LSD testing on unknowing, unwitting military test subjects.
Chemical spraying on "special" ops teams in Hawaii. Lying about WMDs. Just
today there's a report that Bush was planning the Iraq invasion pre-9/11.


So if you're not afraid and suspicious of our own government then you must
be very naive or conveniently ignorant. As far as I can tell the only
people that like Bush and Co. are the very rich. Anyone else is naive or
a fool if they think this admin. is doing them any good. If you're under
$500,000/yr you are taking it you-know-where. Have a close look at AMT if
you are in disbelief. If you like your money you can't like Bush and Co.


The bottom line is that along with these security warnings going up and
down, and the agendas floating around trying to tear the country apart with
conspiracy theories, you're going to have little old ladies hassled at the


What conspiracy theories?


airport for their nail clippers; old men of 96 taken aside and made to strip
down to their shorts; clerks at Staples showing the boss that they are
"contributing" to the overall "concerns" of their employers; and young

blah blah blah


middle eastern looking men passed by security because no one wants to look
like their profiling.


What? Do you have some instances of this happening? I don't believe you.


Hell, all you have to do is take a good look at the posts that might follow
mine here to see how absolutely divided we all are on this issue :-)))

Divided is not the issue it's about getting facts as opposed to concocting
incorrect conclusions.

R. Hubbell




Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

"R.Hubbell" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:32:17 GMT "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Jeb" wrote in message
om...
Flight Sim enquiry raises terror alert
By Andrew Orlowski in Las Vegas
Posted: 08/01/2004 at 22:39 GMT
A mother's enquiry about buying Microsoft Flight Simulator for her
ten-year-old son prompted a night-time visit to her home from a state
trooper.

Julie Olearcek, a USAF Reserve pilot made the enquiry at a Staples
store in Massachusetts, home to an earlier bout of hysteria, during
the Salem witch trials.

So alarmed was the Staples clerk at the prospect of the ten year old
learning to fly, that he informed the police, the Greenfield Recorder
reports. The authorities moved into action, leaving nothing to chance.
A few days later, Olearcek was alarmed to discover a state trooper
flashing a torch into to her home through a sliding glass door at 8:30
pm on a rainy night.

Olearcek is a regular Staples customer and schools her son at home.
The Staples manager simply explained that staff were obeying advice.
Shortly before Christmas, the FBI issued a terror alert to beware of
drivers with maps, or reference books.

At one time it was rare to find US citizens, in the safest and most
prosperous country in the world, jumping at their own shadows. Now we
only note how high.

It could also be noted that incidents like this are isolated rather than
the
general norm. This specific incident was overplayed because the person

It could be noted but it isn't true. There are plenty of knee-jerks like
this
going on everyday. Do you think every one makes the news?


involved on the receiving end was a pilot. People are not jumping at
their

This makes no sense. In what way was it overplayed? The person involved
was 10 years old. It was overplayed because our rights to freedom are
being trampled.


own shadows in America. If anything, there's a huge problem with people


People are shooting at their own shadows. 10,000 gun related per year.
(or more??)

generally beginning to take on a "relaxed" attitude about the country
being
hit again.
These incidents are going to happen, and they're going to happen again,
so
you better get used to it. When you have retail store managers with good


It's surprising to think that anyone could buy into the drivel you seem
to have bought into. Wait until you're hauled off and detained with no
reason given.


intentions but absolutely no training in security matters at all calling
meetings and "briefing" young impressionable sales clerks on the
importance
of reporting "anything suspicious" because they have received a flyer
from
"headquarters" or seen something on the nightly news, this kind of thing
is
going to happen.
The bottom line is that we're caught between what we should be doing to
be
secure, and what we're actually doing to be secure. It's a mess out
there.
There's some security, but not nearly enough has been done. We're caught
between our freedom and how much of that freedom we're willing to give
up
for security. It's a HUGE problem that's filled with pot holes. We have


There are not enough freedoms to give up to get the safety you seem to
think
we can get.


every faction with an agenda to grind flailing away at every attempt to
make
the nation more secure. In fact, I think it's safe to say, from what
I've
seen so far at least, that we're as afraid and suspicious of our own
government as we are of the terrorist situation, perhaps with reason,
perhaps not...who the hell knows?


Well our own government has lied to us so many times recently you don't
know what to believe do you? They've done all kinds of horrible things to
our
own people. LSD testing on unknowing, unwitting military test subjects.
Chemical spraying on "special" ops teams in Hawaii. Lying about WMDs.
Just
today there's a report that Bush was planning the Iraq invasion pre-9/11.


So if you're not afraid and suspicious of our own government then you must
be very naive or conveniently ignorant. As far as I can tell the only
people that like Bush and Co. are the very rich. Anyone else is naive or
a fool if they think this admin. is doing them any good. If you're under
$500,000/yr you are taking it you-know-where. Have a close look at AMT if
you are in disbelief. If you like your money you can't like Bush and Co.


The bottom line is that along with these security warnings going up and
down, and the agendas floating around trying to tear the country apart
with
conspiracy theories, you're going to have little old ladies hassled at
the


What conspiracy theories?


airport for their nail clippers; old men of 96 taken aside and made to
strip
down to their shorts; clerks at Staples showing the boss that they are
"contributing" to the overall "concerns" of their employers; and young

blah blah blah


middle eastern looking men passed by security because no one wants to
look
like their profiling.


What? Do you have some instances of this happening? I don't believe you.


Hell, all you have to do is take a good look at the posts that might
follow
mine here to see how absolutely divided we all are on this issue :-)))

Divided is not the issue it's about getting facts as opposed to concocting
incorrect conclusions.

R. Hubbell

LOL!
Hell Hubbell, this post is so filled with personal agenda and conspiricy
theory that it's literally impossible to deal with it even if I wanted to,
which I don't :-)
You win, The world sucks; the government exists only to hurt us, and they're
coming to get all of us in the middle of the night, and the President is a
................ what's the use....? :-))
Take care,
DH

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:32:04 GMT "Dudley Henriques" wrote:


"R.Hubbell" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:32:17 GMT "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Jeb" wrote in message
om...
Flight Sim enquiry raises terror alert
By Andrew Orlowski in Las Vegas
Posted: 08/01/2004 at 22:39 GMT
A mother's enquiry about buying Microsoft Flight Simulator for her
ten-year-old son prompted a night-time visit to her home from a state
trooper.

Julie Olearcek, a USAF Reserve pilot made the enquiry at a Staples
store in Massachusetts, home to an earlier bout of hysteria, during
the Salem witch trials.

So alarmed was the Staples clerk at the prospect of the ten year old
learning to fly, that he informed the police, the Greenfield Recorder
reports. The authorities moved into action, leaving nothing to chance.
A few days later, Olearcek was alarmed to discover a state trooper
flashing a torch into to her home through a sliding glass door at 8:30
pm on a rainy night.

Olearcek is a regular Staples customer and schools her son at home.
The Staples manager simply explained that staff were obeying advice.
Shortly before Christmas, the FBI issued a terror alert to beware of
drivers with maps, or reference books.

At one time it was rare to find US citizens, in the safest and most
prosperous country in the world, jumping at their own shadows. Now we
only note how high.

It could also be noted that incidents like this are isolated rather than
the
general norm. This specific incident was overplayed because the person

It could be noted but it isn't true. There are plenty of knee-jerks like
this
going on everyday. Do you think every one makes the news?


involved on the receiving end was a pilot. People are not jumping at
their

This makes no sense. In what way was it overplayed? The person involved
was 10 years old. It was overplayed because our rights to freedom are
being trampled.


own shadows in America. If anything, there's a huge problem with people


People are shooting at their own shadows. 10,000 gun related per year.
(or more??)

generally beginning to take on a "relaxed" attitude about the country
being
hit again.
These incidents are going to happen, and they're going to happen again,
so
you better get used to it. When you have retail store managers with good


It's surprising to think that anyone could buy into the drivel you seem
to have bought into. Wait until you're hauled off and detained with no
reason given.


intentions but absolutely no training in security matters at all calling
meetings and "briefing" young impressionable sales clerks on the
importance
of reporting "anything suspicious" because they have received a flyer
from
"headquarters" or seen something on the nightly news, this kind of thing
is
going to happen.
The bottom line is that we're caught between what we should be doing to
be
secure, and what we're actually doing to be secure. It's a mess out
there.
There's some security, but not nearly enough has been done. We're caught
between our freedom and how much of that freedom we're willing to give
up
for security. It's a HUGE problem that's filled with pot holes. We have


There are not enough freedoms to give up to get the safety you seem to
think
we can get.


every faction with an agenda to grind flailing away at every attempt to
make
the nation more secure. In fact, I think it's safe to say, from what
I've
seen so far at least, that we're as afraid and suspicious of our own
government as we are of the terrorist situation, perhaps with reason,
perhaps not...who the hell knows?


Well our own government has lied to us so many times recently you don't
know what to believe do you? They've done all kinds of horrible things to
our
own people. LSD testing on unknowing, unwitting military test subjects.
Chemical spraying on "special" ops teams in Hawaii. Lying about WMDs.
Just
today there's a report that Bush was planning the Iraq invasion pre-9/11.


So if you're not afraid and suspicious of our own government then you must
be very naive or conveniently ignorant. As far as I can tell the only
people that like Bush and Co. are the very rich. Anyone else is naive or
a fool if they think this admin. is doing them any good. If you're under
$500,000/yr you are taking it you-know-where. Have a close look at AMT if
you are in disbelief. If you like your money you can't like Bush and Co.


The bottom line is that along with these security warnings going up and
down, and the agendas floating around trying to tear the country apart
with
conspiracy theories, you're going to have little old ladies hassled at
the


What conspiracy theories?


airport for their nail clippers; old men of 96 taken aside and made to
strip
down to their shorts; clerks at Staples showing the boss that they are
"contributing" to the overall "concerns" of their employers; and young

blah blah blah


middle eastern looking men passed by security because no one wants to
look
like their profiling.


What? Do you have some instances of this happening? I don't believe you.


Hell, all you have to do is take a good look at the posts that might
follow
mine here to see how absolutely divided we all are on this issue :-)))

Divided is not the issue it's about getting facts as opposed to concocting
incorrect conclusions.

R. Hubbell

LOL!
Hell Hubbell, this post is so filled with personal agenda and conspiricy
theory that it's literally impossible to deal with it even if I wanted to,
which I don't :-)

It is? Prove that point.


You win, The world sucks; the government exists only to hurt us, and they're
coming to get all of us in the middle of the night, and the President is a
............... what's the use....? :-))


Your reality has been skewed somehow. Care to say how? Or are you unsure?


Take care,
DH



Okay so you don't really have any counterpoint so you would rather steer the
discussion to a close. That's fine with me too. Maybe you just weren't
expecting a reply that questioned your position.

I hope you have a lot of money because Bush and Co. are good to those that
do. And the ones that don't have a lot are good for those that do have a
lot of money. Rich people love middle-class republican voters. You help
them hold on to their money.


R. Hubbell

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:yp0Mb.17916$sv6.54629@attbi_s52...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:Sw%Lb.17545$sv6.52969@attbi_s52...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
.net...
Thank you. Just read the site. Problem solved!

You're welcome Dudley!

It was immediately obvious to me when I read the post that it
describes
a
right-winger's fantasy of what liberals are like, and that it was
almost
certainly a hoax. It took about 30 seconds of searching to confirm my
suspicion.

--Gary

Actually, you might have spent 45 seconds instead of 30. :-)))
It doesn't look like a hoax at all. I'm reading it as an actual event
that
got out of control because the vet and the store employee weren't on the
same page when the vet made the initial request.

Yes, it seems to have begun as an honest misunderstanding. But if you
read
for 60 seconds instead of 45 :-)), you'll see that many inflammatory
details
were added to the vet's letter as it circulated around the 'net. So that
added portion, at least, is a hoax.

Regards,
Gary

You could say that I guess Gary, but it seems inconclusive if we're
discussing the issue in an analysis context. Saying it's a hoax as that
applies to the entire issue only covers what the vet did AFTER the incident
at the store. Any in depth analysis would have to include the events that
occurred at the store that precluded the vet's response. I think we're both
dealing in semantics a bit here :-)) It's a matter of interpretation I
guess. I'm reading from what Target has said that they honestly believe that
their employee mangled the situation; in fact; causing the misunderstanding.
This doesn't excuse the vet expanding the issue for his own purpose, but I'm
reading what the vet actually said as his interpretation of Target's
corporate policy based on what he understood from the way he was handled by
Target. This would alter my thinking when considering what he said as
interpretation or a hoax. I'll admit, it's a fine line, but I think you have
to factor in his action as unrelated to what happened in the store before
you can assign a hoax title to what he did.
So I'm reading this as separate interpretations; the store's; the vets';
yours; and mine.
Talk about nobody being on the same page!!!! :-))))))))
Dudley

"R.Hubbell" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:32:04 GMT "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"R.Hubbell" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:32:17 GMT "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Jeb" wrote in message
om...
Flight Sim enquiry raises terror alert
By Andrew Orlowski in Las Vegas
Posted: 08/01/2004 at 22:39 GMT
A mother's enquiry about buying Microsoft Flight Simulator for her
ten-year-old son prompted a night-time visit to her home from a
state
trooper.

Julie Olearcek, a USAF Reserve pilot made the enquiry at a Staples
store in Massachusetts, home to an earlier bout of hysteria,
during
the Salem witch trials.

So alarmed was the Staples clerk at the prospect of the ten year
old
learning to fly, that he informed the police, the Greenfield
Recorder
reports. The authorities moved into action, leaving nothing to
chance.
A few days later, Olearcek was alarmed to discover a state trooper
flashing a torch into to her home through a sliding glass door at
8:30
pm on a rainy night.

Olearcek is a regular Staples customer and schools her son at
home.
The Staples manager simply explained that staff were obeying
advice.
Shortly before Christmas, the FBI issued a terror alert to beware
of
drivers with maps, or reference books.

At one time it was rare to find US citizens, in the safest and
most
prosperous country in the world, jumping at their own shadows. Now
we
only note how high.

It could also be noted that incidents like this are isolated rather
than
the
general norm. This specific incident was overplayed because the
person

It could be noted but it isn't true. There are plenty of knee-jerks
like
this
going on everyday. Do you think every one makes the news?


involved on the receiving end was a pilot. People are not jumping at
their

This makes no sense. In what way was it overplayed? The person
involved
was 10 years old. It was overplayed because our rights to freedom are
being trampled.


own shadows in America. If anything, there's a huge problem with
people


People are shooting at their own shadows. 10,000 gun related per
year.
(or more??)

generally beginning to take on a "relaxed" attitude about the
country
being
hit again.
These incidents are going to happen, and they're going to happen
again,
so
you better get used to it. When you have retail store managers with
good


It's surprising to think that anyone could buy into the drivel you
seem
to have bought into. Wait until you're hauled off and detained with
no
reason given.


intentions but absolutely no training in security matters at all
calling
meetings and "briefing" young impressionable sales clerks on the
importance
of reporting "anything suspicious" because they have received a
flyer
from
"headquarters" or seen something on the nightly news, this kind of
thing
is
going to happen.
The bottom line is that we're caught between what we should be doing
to
be
secure, and what we're actually doing to be secure. It's a mess out
there.
There's some security, but not nearly enough has been done. We're
caught
between our freedom and how much of that freedom we're willing to
give
up
for security. It's a HUGE problem that's filled with pot holes. We
have


There are not enough freedoms to give up to get the safety you seem to
think
we can get.


every faction with an agenda to grind flailing away at every attempt
to
make
the nation more secure. In fact, I think it's safe to say, from what
I've
seen so far at least, that we're as afraid and suspicious of our own
government as we are of the terrorist situation, perhaps with
reason,
perhaps not...who the hell knows?


Well our own government has lied to us so many times recently you
don't
know what to believe do you? They've done all kinds of horrible
things to
our
own people. LSD testing on unknowing, unwitting military test
subjects.
Chemical spraying on "special" ops teams in Hawaii. Lying about WMDs.
Just
today there's a report that Bush was planning the Iraq invasion
pre-9/11.


So if you're not afraid and suspicious of our own government then you
must
be very naive or conveniently ignorant. As far as I can tell the only
people that like Bush and Co. are the very rich. Anyone else is naive
or
a fool if they think this admin. is doing them any good. If you're
under
$500,000/yr you are taking it you-know-where. Have a close look at
AMT if
you are in disbelief. If you like your money you can't like Bush and
Co.


The bottom line is that along with these security warnings going up
and
down, and the agendas floating around trying to tear the country
apart
with
conspiracy theories, you're going to have little old ladies hassled
at
the


What conspiracy theories?


airport for their nail clippers; old men of 96 taken aside and made
to
strip
down to their shorts; clerks at Staples showing the boss that they
are
"contributing" to the overall "concerns" of their employers; and
young

blah blah blah


middle eastern looking men passed by security because no one wants
to
look
like their profiling.


What? Do you have some instances of this happening? I don't believe
you.


Hell, all you have to do is take a good look at the posts that might
follow
mine here to see how absolutely divided we all are on this issue
:-)))

Divided is not the issue it's about getting facts as opposed to
concocting
incorrect conclusions.

R. Hubbell

LOL!
Hell Hubbell, this post is so filled with personal agenda and conspiricy
theory that it's literally impossible to deal with it even if I wanted
to,
which I don't :-)

It is? Prove that point.


You win, The world sucks; the government exists only to hurt us, and
they're
coming to get all of us in the middle of the night, and the President is
a
............... what's the use....? :-))


Your reality has been skewed somehow. Care to say how? Or are you unsure?


Take care,
DH



Okay so you don't really have any counterpoint so you would rather steer
the
discussion to a close. That's fine with me too. Maybe you just weren't
expecting a reply that questioned your position.

I hope you have a lot of money because Bush and Co. are good to those that
do. And the ones that don't have a lot are good for those that do have a
lot of money. Rich people love middle-class republican voters. You help
them hold on to their money.


R. Hubbell

As I said, you are right about everything; I have no issue; the world is the
way you see it; Bush is bad; yes I'm rich: and I just remembered why I don't
like to post here and usually don't.
See ya!
DH

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
nk.net...
Talk about nobody being on the same page!!!! :-))))))))

Well, I think we're close enough on this one.

Regards,
Gary

Dudley

"Eric Mitchell" wrote in message
k.net...
| Sorry, Karl you were misled, that is one of those wonderful internet urban
| legends
| http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/target.asp
|

Sorry Eric, but even Snopes does not say that this is an urban legend, but a
misunderstanding. At bottom, Forrey's concerns were understandable
considering how the clerk handled the situation and the rather uninformative
letter that Target sent out to try to clear things up. Note that Target does
not explicitly deny Forrey's accusations. They only say that all their
contributions are made at corporate levels and that those contributions must
meet corporate giving guidelines -- which the Vets only meet if they fall
under the terms of "education, arts or family violence prevention." I will
bet darned few Veterans' organizations meet those guidelines, but that
plenty of homosexual groups claim to meet them.

I agree with Dudley that this is an isolated case and should be treated as
such. I have a great deal of faith in this country and I think that
eventually a lot of these imbalances will get evened out.

However, I do think it is worthwhile paying attention to incidents like
this. First of all, we do not want through our silence to allow others to
believe that this is acceptable or normal behavior. America may be basically
self correcting, but it will not be self correcting if we just stand by and
let things like this happen. Ridicule, scorn, protest, or whatever other
activities that you can do to register that this incident is wrong, we don't
want any more incidents like this, and that we don't want to go any further
down this road are entirely appropriate.

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:hf1Mb.18243$5V2.30636@attbi_s53...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
nk.net...
Talk about nobody being on the same page!!!! :-))))))))

Well, I think we're close enough on this one.

Regards,
Gary

All the best to you and yours in the coming year.
Dudley

Now that's truly terrifying...

mike regish

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
.net...

These incidents are going to happen, and they're going to happen again, so
you better get used to it.

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt