Tight patterns?

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

At a lot of airports you are in the pattern mixed up with Jets so it
works out best if you fly a similar pattern. A Cessna's pretty damn
slow though.


Right. So if the Cessna does fly a pattern similar to the jet's there's no
way they can mix. To keep the same spacing an aircraft half the speed of
another aircraft must fly a pattern half the total length of that
aircraft's.

Prescribed pattern distances/altitudes/entrys are fine until someone
doesn't..
- good strobes, good radio technique, look out for the other guy, and keep
looking until clear of the runway -
are the only things that can be depended upon to work... If you want more
safety add another strobe to your plane not another regulation...
denny

"Steve Robertson" wrote in message
...
Well, you shouldn't fly a tight pattern any more than you should fly a
wide pattern.

(Rick Durden) wrote in message

At controlled fields when I'm stuck behind some yahoo flying downwind
a mile from the field, I'll ask for a right pattern the next time
around, fly it tight and get in front of the slow motion stuff. Tower
usually understands and will cooperate. Sometimes a visit to the
tower to discuss it results in an understanding and they'll help you
out.

I have had the tower asked me if I wanted to do right trafic to get
ahead of the other person.
This is also the same tower I have heard tell incoming trafic 1 Cessna
flying Huge pattern.
Most the instructor I have flown with there teach a tight pattern. I
assume this is the norm at this airport because of what I have heard
tower say.
Ron

(Rick Durden) wrote
You've discovered one of the real shortcomings of ab initio flight
training where they teach students how to become commuter airline
pilots rather than how to fly. Thus the giant sized patterns. It's a
true pain in the whatsis.

If they were real ab-initio career training programs where the
graduate of the program goes straight into the right seat of an
airliner, it would not be such a bad thing. They could do as they
wanted at their (usually towered) training bases, and we would not
have to deal with them very much elsewhere.

The problem is that these are not real ab-initio career programs. The
graduates of these programs mostly leave the school at 250-300 hours
with CFI/CFII/MEI ratings, and spend the next several hundred hours
teaching elsewhere. That's where they do the real damage.

These guys move on after a year or three and are mostly not seen in GA
again, but their students are mostly not career track, and we have to
deal with them in GA for as long as they're going to fly.

We (and by that I mean the CFI's here and in the pilot lounges, who
are mostly not headed for the airlines) all sit around and talk about
how none of our students would ever fly airliner-sized patterns, since
we taught them better than that, so it must be some other guy's
students. Well, guess what - for every one of us, there are half a
dozen of them - and by them I mean the ab-initio career program
graduates. What's more, for every student we train, they train half a
dozen - because we're mostly part time and they're mostly full time.

How bad is it? Once I inadvertently cut off a guy in the pattern. He
was so far outside me on downwind (and a couple hundred feet high to
boot) that it just never occurred to me that he was in the pattern.
The sad thing is, he was in a Cherokee and I was in a Twin Comanche.

Michael

Sometimes, I'll end up behind somebody in the pattern, only to realize that,
by the time he turns final, I could have done another touch and go and ended up
behind him.

off topic but i always silently calculate this when i ski with friends (who are
slower), i.e. i could have been down and rode the lift up and been back down
by the time we finish first run!

Ron Hammer wrote:

(Rick Durden) wrote in message


At controlled fields when I'm stuck behind some yahoo flying downwind
a mile from the field, I'll ask for a right pattern the next time
around, fly it tight and get in front of the slow motion stuff. Tower
usually understands and will cooperate. Sometimes a visit to the
tower to discuss it results in an understanding and they'll help you
out.


I have had the tower asked me if I wanted to do right trafic to get
ahead of the other person.

No need to fly the other direction. Just have the tower start your base
early. Same goes for an uncontrolled pattern. I wouldn't hesitate to
cut somebody off if they flew a huge pattern.

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message ...
Prescribed pattern distances/altitudes/entrys are fine until someone
doesn't..
- good strobes, good radio technique, look out for the other guy, and keep
looking until clear of the runway -
are the only things that can be depended upon to work... If you want more
safety add another strobe to your plane not another regulation...
denny


if you want more safety keep asshole pilots on the ground

You're kidding, right? How is cutting someone off in the pattern, because
you don't like the way they're flying, safe?

"Newps" wrote. I wouldn't hesitate to
cut somebody off if they flew a huge pattern.

He's flying to a 2 mile final, I learned that the first time I had to
follow him, won't happen again. I'm on downwind behind him. Abeam the
numbers or there abouts I turn base. When he eventually gets on final
I'm already turning crosswind.

lardsoup wrote:

You're kidding, right? How is cutting someone off in the pattern, because
you don't like the way they're flying, safe?


"Newps" wrote. I wouldn't hesitate to
cut somebody off if they flew a huge pattern.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message nk.net...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

At a lot of airports you are in the pattern mixed up with Jets so it
works out best if you fly a similar pattern. A Cessna's pretty damn
slow though.


Right. So if the Cessna does fly a pattern similar to the jet's there's no
way they can mix. To keep the same spacing an aircraft half the speed of
another aircraft must fly a pattern half the total length of that
aircraft's.

I don't drive a Cessna, I drive a Mooney.