Must have aviation movies

Tell you how GIMCP was written BJ. Bob was approached by Charlie Scribner.
Scribner told Bob he had a great story to tell and handed Scotty a bunch of
those cylinder things for the talking machines and locked Bob in a room at
the Waldorf in New York. Bob wrote the whole damn story in one weekend
locked in that room! Then Jack Warner got in on it and the rest is history.
A funny aside to all this is that Warner Bros hired Richard Loo, the great
Asian actor to do the Tokyo Joe "ace" part in the picture and Bob has spent
the rest of his life on the lecture circuit telling people that he didn't
ACTUALLY shoot down Tokyo Joe!! :-))
Dudley



Sadly, it seems that much of the average American's knowledge of history
is gained via the silver screen. Ever since I was 10 or 11 and saw a
blatant historical error in a movie, it's ****ed me off when I think
that someone got paid mega bucks to create an enduring version of
history that any literate person would know is false.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

"Cartoons with a Touch of Magic"
http://www.wizardofdraws.com
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 19:30:21 -0600, "Mike O'Malley"
wrote:

Now, if anyone can find a copy of Zero Hour... I hear that the studio that
mad Airplane! bought the rights to that movie before they released it. Kind
sucks to keep a classic like that under lock and key for petty reasons like
that... It would almost be better to relase the two together I would
think...

Well, I can't find the reference to it now, but on some board I was
on, someone mentioned that Turner Classic Movies runs Zero Hour every
once in a blue moon. So, set your TiVo for 'Zero Hour', in the movie
category, and you might get lucky.

aw

Dudley

Yep. Scott was CO for a year or so.Think he went to Washington when he
left? We had jets at Willie but he had a P-51 that was pre-flighted
and pulled out in front of Base Ops every day. Never saw it
fly!!!!!!!!!!! I tried to get to fly it an hour a week to keep gaskets
in Merlin from going bad but no luck.

You of course remember Leon (the Peon) Gray? Training Group Commander?
Lots of stories about him but not the place or time G

Don't remember the deaths you asked about. I did get a copy of the
Willie History with accidents and fatalities from Maxwell for a
Reunion of the Instructors we had 10 years ago. I'll list some of them
so all will know how dangerous it was to fly at that time and place.

MAJOR ACCIDENTS - July-September 1951

5 Jul TF-80A Stall, ground collision
5 Jul TF-80A Porpoised on landing
10 Jul F-80A Wheels up landing in cotton patch
17 Jul TF-80B Landed short of runway. hard landing
19 Jul TF-80A Hard landing
24 Jul F-80A Collided with T-33 in formation flight
Pilot killed
24 Jul T-33A Mid-air collision
26 Jul T-33A Explosion in plenum chamber
30 Jul T-6F Left wing tip struck ground.
T-6 rammed row of parked T-28's
30 Jul T-28A Damaged by T-6
30 Jul T-28A Damaged by T-6
7 Aug TF-80A Turbine wheel failure
7 Aug T-6A Controls jammed. Pilot bailed out.
16 Aug F-80A Explosion in flight. Student killed.
22 Aug F-80A Spin, wheels up landing, fire.
22 Aug F-80A Landed short, sheared left gear.
28 Aug T-6F Stalled on final turn, collided with
ground. Fatal
4 Sept TF-80A Ground collision. Fatal.

MAJOR ACCIDENTS - Oct-Dec 1951

21 Sep F-80A Spin. Pilot bailed out.
22 Sep T-6D Nose up landing.
24 Sep T-6D Nose up landing.
9 Oct T-6D Loss of control. Ground loop.
10 Oct T-33 Hard landing
15 Oct TF-80A Loss of control. Fatal.
16 Oct T-6F Wheels up landing
30 Oct F-80A Vertigo at night. Fatal
7 Nov T-6D Taxi accident. Hit truck.
19 Nov T-6F Wheels up landing
19 Nov TF-80A Compressor stalled. Fire on ground.
3 Dec F-80 Final turn spin. Fatal
4 Dec F-80 Fire in Engine. Pilot bailed ok
11 Dec T-6D Cart wheeled during formation take
off.
14 Dec T-6D Taxi accident. Hit right wing.
18 Dec T-6F Taxi accident. Hit another A/C and
nosed up

MAJOR ACCIDENTS - Jan - Mar 1952


9 Jan F-80A Final turn spin. French Cadet fatal.
13 Jan F-80B Stall in Final turn. Fatal Norwegian
Cadet.
16 Jan T-33 Tip tank came off.Fatal
Netherlands
Cadet
22 Jan T-33 Blew tires off R/W. Major gear damage.
19 Jan T-6F Ground loop
24 Jan T-6F Engine stoppage. Bail out.
29 Jan T-33 Inverted spin. Fatal
29 Jan TF-80A Premature pulled gear. Bellied in.
25 Feb T-33 Wheels up landing.
26 Feb F-80 Collision on final. No injuries
26 Feb T-33 Collision on final. No injuries
29 Feb T-33 Collision w/power lines. No injuries
29 Feb F-80A Flame out. Belly landing. No injuries.
7 Mar T-6F Wheels up. Pilot disabled by CO
7 Mar F-80B Ground collision cause unknown. Fatal.
7 Mar T-33 Collision on final. No injuries
7 Mar F-80A Collision on final. No injuries.
9 Mar T-33 Out of fuel. Belly landing.
12 Mar F-80B Formation midair. No injuries
12 Mar T-33 Formation midair. No injuries
27 Mar T-33 Fuel shortage. Crash land. No injuries
28 Mar T-6F Buzzing. Instructor critical injuries.


I have several more years of accidents with more or less fatalities
each month. We averaged 3-4 deaths (Students/Instructors) a month at
Willie while I was there.

I only lost one student while I was there. Night flight in a T-33 and
ran out of fuel just after take off because he didn't gang load his
fuel switches for take off.

As was said, luck and skill needed to survive when the students were
trying to kill you..


Big John


On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 00:56:10 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Big John" wrote in message
.. .
Dudley

I screwed up again (

Only ONCE!!!! Hell, I do that all the time!! :-))

Went back in my files and movie was "Student Pilot" not "Jet Pilot"
which was not a very good action film either even with 'names' in it.

"Student Pilot" was filmed at Williams AFB (Willie Field), the Jet
School, in 1951. Aircraft were T-33A and F-80B. Principals I had never
heard of prior and never heard of after. It wasn't a "B' movie, more
like a 'C' or 'D' and flying was shot in a week. Had more stilted
lovey dovey than tiger training.

My records show I also flew in some of the formation parts of film
besides the on ground filming.

Awe well, what is past is past. Didn't want my name associated with it
then and not trying to get in the credits now.

John

Willie Air Patch was really something back then eh BJ? Was Bob Scott the CO
out there when you were there? He is a charter member of the old IFPF, and
one of the nicest guys I've ever known. I believe Bob was CO at Willie in
50. I guess you knew the Pattillo twins, Dick Catledge and the guys as well.
I remember you asking me about Creech!! I think they came in a bit later in
53 at Luke.
Quite a time those days. People and times to remember for sure.
I don't know if you remember Dave McAllister and Bill Spruance's accident in
the T-Bird. That was around that time.
God, I'm wandering all around here :-))
Dudley

Oddly, no one has mentioned "Dr. Strangelove" yet.

in article , C J Campbell at
wrote on 1/24/04 10:00 PM:

Oddly, no one has mentioned "Dr. Strangelove" yet.

I've read that the cockpit of the B-52 depicted in that film was extremely
realistic, and the details were gotten entirely from Janes magazine.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
Oddly, no one has mentioned "Dr. Strangelove" yet.

You just did.

"I can sit down right now and write a check for $100,000, can you?"

Seems to me, that pretty much proved the drunk's point.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

"I can sit down right now and write a check for $100,000, can you?"

Seems to me, that pretty much proved the drunk's point.

all the best -- Dan Ford

No it wouldn't!

I hate to see someone who has supposedly done a ton of research on these
things make such an assumption, and I will try to rectify this "expert"
opinion if I may. Feel free to counter my point if you like.

Scott's book was accurate. It was Jack Warner who changed things around to
make the movie more "interesting", and Scott had no say in the final. But my
point just begins here. Even the movie, although containing characters
inserted in the screenplay for interest, was accurate on Scott. There was no
misrepresentation of his kills, his time in China, and most importantly, no
reference to him making claim to AVG membership. The one reference that
could be made to such a claim was not done by Scott, but by an advertising
agency for Warner Bros on a poster pushing the movie. Scott had absolutely
no control over this and couldn't have stopped it had he known about it.
Through time, there were several members of the Tigers who faulted Scott on
the story based on the false assumption that Bob had portrayed himself as
one of the Tigers which of course he had not done at all. No where in his
book does he claim to have been a member of the Tigers. Warner Bros. made
this parity and totally confused the issue. Scotty has been falsely accused
for years of making the association with the Tigers and he had absolutely
nothing to do with it. George Burgard wouldn't even speak Bob's name he
disliked him so much.
When Charlie Scribner cornered Bob and asked him to write a book about his
experiences in China, Bob agreed, and he wrote a great story. He had every
reason to believe that Warner Bros would treat the story as he had written
it. At the time, Scott was not nearly the experienced writer he later
became. He hadn't learned yet how the money men in Hollywood embellish and
twist things around to make them more "salable".
Anyone who knows anything at all about Bob Scott knows that he's a totally
honest man who would never misrepresent himself to anyone. So you're wrong!
The drunk was out of line....and he didn't have all the facts.
Bob Scott was one of the charter members of the IFPF. In over thirty years,
he has never misrepresented himself or anything that he did in China to me
or to anyone else I know...and I know a lot of these people! People known to
me personally who would also agree that the drunk was way out of line would
be the Rossi's, Eric Shilling, and Anna Chennault.
You know Mr. Ford, you have a way of trying to make people appear less than
they really are. It's sad! After writing what you consider a major work on
the Tigers, it's a shame that all you would have to say about General Scott
is what you posted here. I respectfully suggest you do some additional
research on General Scott.

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

"Big John" wrote in message
...
Dudley

Yep. Scott was CO for a year or so.Think he went to Washington when he
left?

That's right. It was there he got in trouble with the brass and then ended
up back at Luke.

We had jets at Willie but he had a P-51 that was pre-flighted
and pulled out in front of Base Ops every day. Never saw it
fly!!!!!!!!!!! I tried to get to fly it an hour a week to keep gaskets
in Merlin from going bad but no luck.

You would have liked it. I flew one for several years on the airshow
circuit. Great bird! Fun, like the 86!

You of course remember Leon (the Peon) Gray? Training Group Commander?
Lots of stories about him but not the place or time G

Just by reputation! Remember, I'm a civilian who just happens to have flown
a lot of military airplanes. I can't claim the official military time you
guys can.....although I seem to remember having a form 5 floating around
here somewhere with some "unofficial" time on it. I'm afraid all of my
thousands of hours in airplanes, were spent as a lowly civilian!!!
I understand the place and time though. Sort of like Creech in that respect
:-))

Don't remember the deaths you asked about.

Bill Spruance and Dave McAllister were coming back to Delaware in a T-Bird
in 61. They stopped at Scott to refuel. On takeoff, they flamed out. Dave
was killed outright and Spruance was burned so badly they gave him the last
rights at the crash site. He survived. He gave lectures for years on flight
safety issues. Dave was the CO of the 142nd FS Delaware ANG and a great guy.
His family was in the food catering business and manufactured the best damn
snapper soup ever to see the light of day. Dave used to fill the gun bays of
his F86H and fly the stuff all over the country to his buddies.



I did get a copy of the
Willie History with accidents and fatalities from Maxwell for a
Reunion of the Instructors we had 10 years ago. I'll list some of them
so all will know how dangerous it was to fly at that time and place.

MAJOR ACCIDENTS - July-September 1951

5 Jul TF-80A Stall, ground collision
5 Jul TF-80A Porpoised on landing
10 Jul F-80A Wheels up landing in cotton patch
17 Jul TF-80B Landed short of runway. hard landing
19 Jul TF-80A Hard landing
24 Jul F-80A Collided with T-33 in formation flight
Pilot killed
24 Jul T-33A Mid-air collision
26 Jul T-33A Explosion in plenum chamber
30 Jul T-6F Left wing tip struck ground.
T-6 rammed row of parked T-28's
30 Jul T-28A Damaged by T-6
30 Jul T-28A Damaged by T-6
7 Aug TF-80A Turbine wheel failure
7 Aug T-6A Controls jammed. Pilot bailed out.
16 Aug F-80A Explosion in flight. Student killed.
22 Aug F-80A Spin, wheels up landing, fire.
22 Aug F-80A Landed short, sheared left gear.
28 Aug T-6F Stalled on final turn, collided with
ground. Fatal
4 Sept TF-80A Ground collision. Fatal.

MAJOR ACCIDENTS - Oct-Dec 1951

21 Sep F-80A Spin. Pilot bailed out.
22 Sep T-6D Nose up landing.
24 Sep T-6D Nose up landing.
9 Oct T-6D Loss of control. Ground loop.
10 Oct T-33 Hard landing
15 Oct TF-80A Loss of control. Fatal.
16 Oct T-6F Wheels up landing
30 Oct F-80A Vertigo at night. Fatal
7 Nov T-6D Taxi accident. Hit truck.
19 Nov T-6F Wheels up landing
19 Nov TF-80A Compressor stalled. Fire on ground.
3 Dec F-80 Final turn spin. Fatal
4 Dec F-80 Fire in Engine. Pilot bailed ok
11 Dec T-6D Cart wheeled during formation take
off.
14 Dec T-6D Taxi accident. Hit right wing.
18 Dec T-6F Taxi accident. Hit another A/C and
nosed up

MAJOR ACCIDENTS - Jan - Mar 1952


9 Jan F-80A Final turn spin. French Cadet fatal.
13 Jan F-80B Stall in Final turn. Fatal Norwegian
Cadet.
16 Jan T-33 Tip tank came off.Fatal
Netherlands
Cadet
22 Jan T-33 Blew tires off R/W. Major gear damage.
19 Jan T-6F Ground loop
24 Jan T-6F Engine stoppage. Bail out.
29 Jan T-33 Inverted spin. Fatal
29 Jan TF-80A Premature pulled gear. Bellied in.
25 Feb T-33 Wheels up landing.
26 Feb F-80 Collision on final. No injuries
26 Feb T-33 Collision on final. No injuries
29 Feb T-33 Collision w/power lines. No injuries
29 Feb F-80A Flame out. Belly landing. No injuries.
7 Mar T-6F Wheels up. Pilot disabled by CO
7 Mar F-80B Ground collision cause unknown. Fatal.
7 Mar T-33 Collision on final. No injuries
7 Mar F-80A Collision on final. No injuries.
9 Mar T-33 Out of fuel. Belly landing.
12 Mar F-80B Formation midair. No injuries
12 Mar T-33 Formation midair. No injuries
27 Mar T-33 Fuel shortage. Crash land. No injuries
28 Mar T-6F Buzzing. Instructor critical injuries.


I have several more years of accidents with more or less fatalities
each month. We averaged 3-4 deaths (Students/Instructors) a month at
Willie while I was there.

I only lost one student while I was there. Night flight in a T-33 and
ran out of fuel just after take off because he didn't gang load his
fuel switches for take off.

That very well might have the problem with the J33 on Mcallister's T-Bird as
well......or emergency fuel select....God only knows!

As was said, luck and skill needed to survive when the students were
trying to kill you..

Sounds like you did ok getting through it all. :-)
Dudley

Hot Shots, while occasionally funny, is almost unwatchable.

I can watch Valeria Golina for 2 hours easily. No problem. G


www.Rosspilot.com