Moving to CA

Like Dave says. Honestly if people want to choose their airport
based on the preponderance, or not, of certain makes of car,
then that's their privilege, but it strikes me as odd.

Traffic (highway variety) is definitely a factor. My office is
about equidistant from the two (237/880) but PAO is
20 mins in normal rush hour traffic, and RHV is more like
45. From home (Mountain View) PAO is 10 mins just about
any time, and RHV doesn't bear thinking about at busy times.

My experience is mainly with PAO. Things can get a bit hectic
on fine weekend mornings, but the rest of the time there are
no significant delays for VFR. Both airports have three or more
decent flying clubs (based on what I've heard anyway). Sundance
at PAO is where I trained and I would recommend it to anyone.

If you want *interesting* aircraft at your field, go to LVK - home
to numerous warbirds, for which PAO and RHV don't have
long enough runways.

John

"Dave Jacobowitz" wrote in message
om...
Wow, I thought this was a rather inocuous thread; a relatively
safe place to post, but alas, I think someone was just insinuated
to be classist and racist based solely on support of his favorite
aerodrome.

For the record, they're both fine airports. The wet rate for
your favorite airplane is higher at PAO. That's a fact. There
are restaurants near RHV that are good, and there are restaurants
near PAO that are good, too. Lunch near PAO will cost you more,
however.

Both airports can get busy, and you might wait at PAO sometimes,
though I have never waited more than 2-3 minutes unless waiting
for an IFR clearance (and that's going to be the same PAO or RHV)

Oddly enough, and worth repeating although it's been said already,
the weather at the two airports is quite a bit different. It's
hotter at RHV than PAO in the summer (note the Bay). There's
more moisture activity (fog, low clouds) at PAO than RHV (note
the Bay). Both airports have GPS approaches, and PAO has a
VOR approach which you can't get most of the time, anyway.
Some people think PAO has frequent difficult crosswinds. I
dunno... it's what I grew up with.

I have seen [nice|beater] [foreign|domesetic] [automobiles|aircraft]
at both airports.

I still stand by my statement that the traffic to get to RHV,
especially at peak and near-peak times (like cutting the afternoon
at work a little short) is the main reason I prefer PAO. I'm
starting from Santa Clara (office) and that's just how it works
out. Also, from Campbell (home), which is a good ten miles
closer to RHV than PAO, it's a faster drive on weekends.

-- dave j

Nadeem,

Are you still sure you want to move to CA ? It's a good thing all the
warbirds are in LVK otherwise a shooting war could break out :-).

The issues about highway traffic and weather are both good ones. Like any
fairly congested area it all depends on the highway you take to the airport
and the time of day. You'll be here about 6 months before you figure out the
spots to completely avoid during commute times. Highway 101 south is a bear
during the evening, it easily takes me 40min to get from work (North 1st
St/237) to RHV. But from my home which is a bit further East I can take 680
south at the same time and be there in 15min (for about the same distance).

RHV is less effected by the marine layer fog which is very common on spring
and summer mornings. Its great to get a few easy minutes of IMC climbing out
in the morning, knowing that it will be gone when you return a couple of
hours later - but only if you've got an instrument rating. Otherwise, its a
frustrating wait for the fog to clear - it usually will clear from RHV
first. The GPS IFR approach to RHV sucks, the MDA is 1440' which often will
not be low enough to get under the fog. The usual trick is to fly the ILS
into SJC, cancel IFR when you break-out at about 1000' and get SVFR to RHV.
The GPS approach to PAO looks a lot better, with an MDA of 460', it might
actually be useful.

The Bay Area is a fun place to fly - no matter where you fly out of, you
will get used to talking to ATC. The landscape is beautiful and there are a
host of excellent flying destinations within an hour of flying time.

-Brenor

"Ishrat Zahid" wrote in message
...
I'm relocating to CA from MA in next few weeks and leaving my old flying
club here at LWM.
Wondering if I can get some good recommendation for flying clubs in the
bay area?
I'll be in Milpitas/San Jose area...
Thanks

/Nadeem

writes:

IMO RHV's management is missing a bet by not making it easier for a
restaurant to occupy the upper level of the gub'ment building there.

The conspiracy mongers amongst us think it's by design, tied into
the ever present efforts to close RHV.

-jav

In article ,
Javier Henderson wrote:
writes:

IMO RHV's management is missing a bet by not making it easier for a
restaurant to occupy the upper level of the gub'ment building there.

The conspiracy mongers amongst us think it's by design, tied into
the ever present efforts to close RHV.

Not sure if it is still the case, but back when the vote on closing
RHV was before the country supervisors, it was reported that all
the businesses were on month-to-month leases to discourage long
term investment.

True or not, RHV could use some TLC.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.panix.com/~jac

Glad someone said something about this. I had a restaurant owner (who owns
another popular airport cafe) interested in looking at RHV. Unfortunately,
the county (in its' ongoing efforts to 'sabotage' any chance of getting the
airport restaurant started up again) will only give a month to month lease.
The old Red Baron needs LOTS of work and capital investment on the inside
and no business person is going to sink all that capital into a building
that only offers a month-to-month lease - and the county know this. Mark my
words... 'Mayor Daley' clones, exist everywhere! :-(

Don't know if it will do any good, but you started me thinking and I'm going
to write our 'governator' about what's going on. However it works out, at
least I'd feel good giving it another try.

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

Wow, I thought this was a rather innocuous thread; a relatively
safe place to post, but alas, I think someone was just insinuated
to be classist and racist based solely on support of his favorite
aerodrome.

Oh jeez,,, it was all tongue-in-cheek. He IS classist though (wink) By the
way, what model BMW do YOU drive? ... :-}~

I still stand by my statement that the traffic to get to RHV,
especially at peak and near-peak times (like cutting the afternoon
at work a little short) is the main reason I prefer PAO. I'm
starting from Santa Clara (office) and that's just how it works
out. Also, from Campbell (home), which is a good ten miles
closer to RHV than PAO, it's a faster drive on weekends.
Both airports can get busy, and you might wait at PAO sometimes,

==== Might???? Sometimes???? Is that what ya call PAO's 'parking lot' in
the run-up area...??? ;-)

If ya have the money to burn,, ,then go ahead,,, but I'd rather see my
flying dollars translate into the most flying time I can possibly get and
don't get me started on how 'fun' it is waiting to get sequenced out of PAO
versus RHV.

I have seen [nice|beater] [foreign|domestic] [automobiles|aircraft]
at both airports.

Naw,,,, PAO is BEAMer and Mercedes land,,,, any beat-up cars you see come
from the impoverished help that they hire to service the 'rich folks'.
Working folk fly out of RHV.... ;-)

For the record, they're both fine airports. The wet rate for
your favorite airplane is higher at PAO. That's a fact. There
are restaurants near RHV that are good, and there are restaurants
near PAO that are good, too. Lunch near PAO will cost you more,
however.

Yes they are LOTS higher!!! Suggestion for those who aren't in the know....
Go to Nice Air, take your lessons or rent a plane at a lower HOBBS and
INSTRUCTOR rate AND you WON'T HAVE TO PAY MEMBERSHIP OR MONTHLY DUES!!!!!

Ladies and gentleman,,,,, Cecil,,, has left the building....... ;-)

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

I'm in Mountain View, but have finally figured a way to get to RHV that only takes me
5 minutes longer than going to PAO. I used to go all the way down to Tully Road and
fight my way through the traffic lights. Finally realized that taking I280 to I680 then getting
off at Capitol Expressway (or Jackson St at rush hour) is very fast.

For someone coming to live in the Milpitas area, it seems like a no-brainer, especially
if they live near I680. Reid-Hillview is closer. And a lot less expensive. And you have
a huge selection of planes at www.squadron2.com Okay, so I teach there on weekends,
but it's still all true. And with two runways, there's hardly ever a wait to get out, unlike
PAO where I kept a plane and flew for many years.
Max T, MCFI

Dave Jacobowitz wrote in message om...

Reid Hillview, I think, is overall a lot cheaper, but
I cannot stand driving to that place. I live in Campbell
which should be closer to RHV and it is to
PAO, but for some reason I can get to PAO faster in my
car, and the drive is less irritating.

"Cecil Chapman" wrote:

Oh jeez,,, it was all tongue-in-cheek. He IS classist though (wink) By the
way, what model BMW do YOU drive? ... :-}~

Okay, okay. You know, sometimes it's not so clear in email.
Not that I'm a huge fan of smileys, but sometimes they go
a long way.

I drive a non-luxury (though nice enough) car. Mustang
convertible.


[ the hobbs rates are higher ]

Yes they are LOTS higher!!! Suggestion for those who aren't in the know....
Go to Nice Air, take your lessons or rent a plane at a lower HOBBS and
INSTRUCTOR rate AND you WON'T HAVE TO PAY MEMBERSHIP OR MONTHLY DUES!!!!!

Okay, one nit about this.

At Sundance there is no daily minimum. I can take an aircraft
to O22, camp three days, fly back, and pay for 2.5 hours on the
Hobbs.

I don't know Nice Air's policy, but a friend of mine who uses
Tradewinds tells me that long trips are simply not practical
based on their hours/day minumims.

-- dave j

Thanks all...for replies...!!!
I got plenty of info to pick from...after I have managed my grocery
budget in CA :-)

/N

Brenor Brophy wrote:

Nadeem,

Are you still sure you want to move to CA ? It's a good thing all the
warbirds are in LVK otherwise a shooting war could break out :-).

The issues about highway traffic and weather are both good ones. Like any
fairly congested area it all depends on the highway you take to the airport
and the time of day. You'll be here about 6 months before you figure out the
spots to completely avoid during commute times. Highway 101 south is a bear
during the evening, it easily takes me 40min to get from work (North 1st
St/237) to RHV. But from my home which is a bit further East I can take 680
south at the same time and be there in 15min (for about the same distance).

RHV is less effected by the marine layer fog which is very common on spring
and summer mornings. Its great to get a few easy minutes of IMC climbing out
in the morning, knowing that it will be gone when you return a couple of
hours later - but only if you've got an instrument rating. Otherwise, its a
frustrating wait for the fog to clear - it usually will clear from RHV
first. The GPS IFR approach to RHV sucks, the MDA is 1440' which often will
not be low enough to get under the fog. The usual trick is to fly the ILS
into SJC, cancel IFR when you break-out at about 1000' and get SVFR to RHV.
The GPS approach to PAO looks a lot better, with an MDA of 460', it might
actually be useful.

The Bay Area is a fun place to fly - no matter where you fly out of, you
will get used to talking to ATC. The landscape is beautiful and there are a
host of excellent flying destinations within an hour of flying time.

-Brenor

"Ishrat Zahid" wrote in message
...


I'm relocating to CA from MA in next few weeks and leaving my old flying
club here at LWM.
Wondering if I can get some good recommendation for flying clubs in the
bay area?
I'll be in Milpitas/San Jose area...
Thanks

/Nadeem

I'm curious, why does the county have this attitude
towards there being a restaurant on the field? The
sense I get (no factual basis, just "sense") is that
Santa Clara County values its airports (all four!),
actually sustaining them and even making improvements. RHV
and PAO are both heavily used, as is SJC, obviously.
Q99, um, maybe not so much, but the county even put
money into that recently to build hangars.

I know there are people who want RHV closed,
like every other airport, but is there any possibility
of that happening near-term? If not, why would the
county want to keep a restaurant out of the "terminal?"
Fear of increased traffic?

Just curious...

-- dave j

PS -- speaking of airports under attack: I feel
for the people at KCCR who seem to have their fight
escalated once again due to the accident on 680
earlier this week. (It kills me, because the news
reports were all over it, referring also back to the
time an aircraft crashed into a nearby mall back in
1985. I'm thinking "1985? How many people have died
on that stretch of highway in cars since then?"