ATC clears takeoff aircraft for midair

Roy Smith wrote:

Controlled has a very specific meaning -- it means ATC can provide
separation services to IFR aircraft. It includes classes A, B, C, D,
and E (at least in the US).

Which is why I've just today invented the new term "separated airspace".

- Andrew

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...

Which is why I've just today invented the new term
"separated airspace".


How do you do that without creating a vacuum? Vacuums suck.

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...

Which is why I've just today invented the new term
"separated airspace".


How does "separated airspace" differ from controlled airspace?

Do you consider Class E airspace uncontrolled as well? How do you
differentiate between Class E and Class G?

In practical, day-to-day terms, I don't.

Of course, I'm VFR.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Last fall the local Class D tower cleared a Piper Arrow to land on Rwy 12R
and then cleared a Piper Malibu JetProp to take off on Rwy 7.

Yep, you guessed it, they met at the intersection, flipped the Arrow onto
it's back, totaled, pilot crawled out the side window and spent a few hours
at the local hospital, but he was home the same night. The Malibu had damage
to the engine and firewall, and a few other bumps and scratches.

The tower had full view of all of the runways.

BT

"Joe Johnson" wrote in message
. ..
I'm a newly minted PP-ASEL and had a disturbing experience the other day.
I've begun renting at the field where I trained, a busy class D airport.
It's usually not possible to do pattern work there because it's so busy.
Returning from a local flight, I noticed that there was very little
traffic,
so I asked to do some touch & gos; I was making left traffic using runway
16. On the 3rd or 4th go, I noticed that a craft was cleared for takeoff
on
runway 11. I knew immediately that our paths would cross. I could not
see
the other plane as it was behind me; the other pilot was warned by the
tower
that I was in the pattern making left traffic. The other pilot finally
saw
me as I was turning crosswing to downwind (heading 70 to 340) and he
indicated he was turning right from his takeoff heading 110. When I
caught
sight of him, I don't think we were more than 100'-200' apart. At this
point, I said "traffic in sight" and tower replied "maintain visual
separation." If I had it to do again, I would have left the pattern and
headed outbound heading somewhere between 160 (my departure heading) and
110
(the other pilot's) until we had positive visual identification.

I'd be especially interested in comments from Gene Whitt, who said ATC has
been trying to kill him for 40 years, and anyone who might recognize the
airport from the runways described.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:734pc.91269$Ik.6994445@attbi_s53...
The tower at a class D airport does not provide much in the way of traffic
separation. They schedule takeoffs and landings and that is about it.

Which is why, IMHO, Class D airspace is the single most dangerous airspace
around.


Class "A" - Above
Class "B" - Busy
Class "C" - Crowded
Class "D" - Dangerous
Class "E" - Enjoyable
Class "G" - Greatest of all

"Joe Johnson" wrote in message
...

"Newps" wrote in message
...

"Joe Johnson" wrote in message
. ..

snip

If I had it to do again, I would have left the pattern and
headed outbound heading somewhere between 160 (my departure heading)
and
110
(the other pilot's) until we had positive visual identification.

This would only make it worse.

How so? I was proposing to follow a non-crossing trajectory.

It's a busy place. It makes no sense to leave the pattern and get in more
peoples way. It is easy for a departing aircraft to miss another that he
can plainly see.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
news

IIRC, VFR flights within Class C airspace are not separated from each
other either.

Technically no but practically yes. If you are approaching to land you have
to be sequenced to whoever you will be following.

You have never spotted for Tuna or Swordfish as a kid...

Have a great one!

Bush

On Fri, 14 May 2004 12:08:41 GMT, "Joe Johnson"
wrote:

I'm a newly minted PP-ASEL and had a disturbing experience the other day.
I've begun renting at the field where I trained, a busy class D airport.
It's usually not possible to do pattern work there because it's so busy.
Returning from a local flight, I noticed that there was very little traffic,
so I asked to do some touch & gos; I was making left traffic using runway
16. On the 3rd or 4th go, I noticed that a craft was cleared for takeoff on
runway 11. I knew immediately that our paths would cross. I could not see
the other plane as it was behind me; the other pilot was warned by the tower
that I was in the pattern making left traffic. The other pilot finally saw
me as I was turning crosswing to downwind (heading 70 to 340) and he
indicated he was turning right from his takeoff heading 110. When I caught
sight of him, I don't think we were more than 100'-200' apart. At this
point, I said "traffic in sight" and tower replied "maintain visual
separation." If I had it to do again, I would have left the pattern and
headed outbound heading somewhere between 160 (my departure heading) and 110
(the other pilot's) until we had positive visual identification.

I'd be especially interested in comments from Gene Whitt, who said ATC has
been trying to kill him for 40 years, and anyone who might recognize the
airport from the runways described.

Y'All,
I don't know why I always get blamed for the things I do. But in response
to the request below I will give some techniques I have used to improve my
survival odds above those of just plain dumb luck.
Jay wrote:
"I'd be especially interested in comments from Gene Whitt, who said ATC has
been trying to kill him for 40 years, and anyone who might recognize the
airport from the runways described."
It takes more than luck to be an old pilot.

--I always clear the final and bases before taking a runway.

--My preferred departure request is always a "270 on course to my
destination.
--This puts me above the pattern altitude quickly and clear of the
usual arrival paths.
--The "On Course" request is a far more specific notice to other pilots of
my intentions and path.

--When I an at anything other than pattern altitude I always inform ATC, not
that it means anything to them, I am talking beyond ATC to any aircraft on
the frequency.
--When I arrive at an airport I never report at a reporting point. I
call-up 1-2 miles to one side of the point and always at an altitude that is
other than ending in thousands or five-hundreds. Usually at
2300 or 2700 above airport elevation.
--I do not arrive on IFR approach corridors.
--When choice exists I will take the smaller runway.
--My preferred arrival is a base entry
--My most interesting arrival was a base entry over the numbers at pattern
altitude with a 270 short approach to the runway.
--If a conflicting aircraft fails to give altitude I query ATC to find out
altitude.

There are others but this should give some ideas of how to survive
at a Class D airport.

Gene Whitt