Another ID change for Smoketown? (37PA, Q08, S37)

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

Anything in the local
history about a commercial broadcast station using those letters?

KWAY is an FM station in Waverly, Iowa.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...

KWAY is an FM station in Waverly, Iowa.


Radio station identifiers don't work the same way airport identifiers do.
KWLS is an AM station in Pratt, Kansas; WLS is an AM station in Chicago,
Illinois.

Marty Shapiro wrote:

"Hilton" wrote in
k.net:

John Clear wrote:

South County (Q99) is changing to E16.

1. When?
2. How do you know?

Thanks,

Hilton




I was informed of this change by the Director of Santa Clara County
Airports by email:

To all users of South County Airport (San Martin, California),
We have been notified by the FAA's National Flight Data Center that
effective on June 10, 2004 the South County Airport Identifier will be
officially changed from Q99 to E16. This change is due to a conflict of
Area Navigation Routes (RNAV) identifiers that begin with the letter "Q"
and airport identifiers that also begin with the letter "Q". The FAA will
notify all aerial chart manufacturers of this change, and new charts and
approach plates are expected to reflect this change in the next series of
publication releases. Please note this change for your records. The
County Airports staff will make the necessary changes in signage, websites
and other County documents as required.

I wonder why they don't synchronize this with the Sectional publication
dates. The next San Francisco chart will come out in early September.

An airport in NJ, Lincoln Park, had a pattern changed from right traffic to
left recently. That information came out late last summer, the November New
York sectional did not reflect the change. The new chart which came out this
month reflects the change.

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

I wonder why they don't synchronize this with the Sectional publication
dates. The next San Francisco chart will come out in early September.

An airport in NJ, Lincoln Park, had a pattern changed from right
traffic to left recently. That information came out late last summer,
the November New York sectional did not reflect the change.
The new chart which came out this month reflects the change.


Sectional charts are updated during their 6 month lifespan via the
Aeronautical Chart Bulletin in the Airport/Facility Directory.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

I believe airports with weather reporting capability also qualify;
many airports that do not meet the qualifications above received
all letters after their new ASOS/AWOS was comissioned.


Yes, I meant to include that. I didn't copy far enough.


On a related note, a bunch of VORs that had the same 3 letter
ID as airports that they were near had their IDs changed a
number of years ago. For example the Williamsport (Pa) VOR
had its ID changed from IPT to FQM. I've wondered if the
letters FQM stand for anything but as far as I can tell it's just a
random identifier. The VOR is a distance away from IPT (KIPT)
the airport, and sits atop a mountain ridge. Apparently some
pilots flew to the mountain instead of the airport.

On the other hand MHT VOR is 4.8 miles away from KMHT
(Manchester NH) airport and they share the same identifier.

This appears to violate 7350.7N 1-2-5
1-2-5 Duplication
a. At the same location, the same identifier may be assigned to
one navigational aid (which must be located within the airport
boundary), to the airport, to a manned air traffic control facility,
and to an aviation weather station on the airport. With certain
restrictions, variations of the airport identifier may be assigned
also to landing systems.


The location identifier criteria obviously changed over time. About twenty
years ago navaids that shared their identifiers with airports but weren't
located on the field began having their identifiers changed. But not all of
them were changed, those that were fairly close were left alone. The cutoff
seemed to be about five miles.


7350.7N 1-2-4 doesn't make it clear that this is ground for
changing the identifier that has been assigned, although it is probably
safe to assume that if the VOR could no longer share its ID with the
airport than this airport was less important.

1-2-4 Permanence.
Established three-letter identifiers are considered permanent and will
not be changed without strong and documented justification, primarily
concerning air safety. Other than three-letter identifiers may be
changed when the status of a landing facility changes, e.g. private-use
to public-use, etc.


FAAO 7350.7 doesn't say anything about what conditions constitute grounds
for changing a 3-letter identifier, but quite a few have changed over the
years nonetheless. DRU is different than any other I've seen change. All
the rest were VORs, which qualify for 3-letter identifiers on their own,
they were just changed to some other 3-letter identifier because they shared
the identifier with an airport some distance away, an airport which also
qualified for a 3-letter identifier on it's own.

The strange thing is that they bothered removing the identifier that had already
been issued; there must have been a compelling reason to make a change beyond
the fact it didn't meet the criteria for a new 3 letter. I wouldn't be
surprised if KDRU shows up somewhere else in the next few years.




But Drummond Airport doesn't qualify for a 3-letter identifier on it's own,
it's not even close. It's just a single short turf strip, 2400 feet, with
no services or lighting. One wonders why it ever had a 3-letter identifier.
One wonders so much that one is compelled to dig out some old publications
that explain it.

Drummond Airport is a former CAA Intermediate Field, it was Site 44B on the
Seattle-Helena airway, part of Green 2. In 1945 the runway was 3600 feet
long, it had runway and obstruction lights, a rotating beacon with course
lights, and an Airway Communication Station (FSS). There was a rotating
airway beacon with course lights, Site 44A on the airway, about three miles
northwest of the field, Drummond Radio Range was about a mile and a half
northeast of the field. The range identifier was DR.

By 1947 an Airport Approach Zone had been added.

By 1954 Drummond VOR/DME was in operation, located immediately south of the
radio range. The range and VOR shared the identifier DRU. Victor 2 had
been established coincident with Green 2. The runway had been reduced to
2600 feet.

By 1962 Green 2 had been disestablished. The radio range was still there
but the identifier had been changed to DU. The VOR, instead of showing DME,
now shows NSME-Non Standard Measuring Equipment. I haven't a clue what that
was.

By 1967 the radio range was gone, the airway beacon was gone, the FSS was
gone, and the VOR had no measuring equipment at all.

In 1972 the airport beacon and course lights were still in operation, as was
the field lighting.

By 1987 the course lights and field lighting were gone, but the airport
beacon was still in operation. The runway was down to it's present 2400
feet.

By 2001 the airport beacon was gone.

The chart segment available on AeroPlanner.com still shows the airport
identifier to be DRU, so the change was very recent.

Interesting history. I wonder why the runway was shortened over the years.

Richard Kaplan wrote:

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

That's usually true. An exception is G. O. Carlson-Chester County
Airport,
Pennsylvania. It's had weather reporting for a while now and I've heard
of no
plans to change its identifer from 40N.

The primary motivating factor to change to a 3-letter identifier is when an
airport has a localizer or ILS approach. The FAA has decided they want the
navaid ID to match the airport ID, i.e. in Pennsylvania 2G3 was changed to
KVVS because the localizer is IVVS and the NDB/FAF is VV.

40N in Pennsylvania has had an ILS and weather reporting for many years. I've
never heard any plans to give it a three letter; it certainly deserves one based
on the FAA's criteria. Anybody know why this airport doesn't receive a new
identifier?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

I wonder why they don't synchronize this with the Sectional publication
dates. The next San Francisco chart will come out in early September.

An airport in NJ, Lincoln Park, had a pattern changed from right
traffic to left recently. That information came out late last summer,
the November New York sectional did not reflect the change.
The new chart which came out this month reflects the change.


Sectional charts are updated during their 6 month lifespan via the
Aeronautical Chart Bulletin in the Airport/Facility Directory.

Yes, that's how I noticed Lincoln Park's change Still for airport
changes that aren't urgent, I don't see the harm in synchronizing the change
with the sectional publication dates. Going through a list of fine print
changes in some publication isn't practical when you need to obtain
information in flight about an airport you weren't planning to stop at;
looking at the current sectional is. IFR pubs are updated much more often so
it really isn't much of an issue.

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

The strange thing is that they bothered removing the identifier that
had already been issued; there must have been a compelling reason
to make a change beyond the fact it didn't meet the criteria for a
new 3 letter.


I'm not sure I follow you. Many airports have had their identifiers changed
when they no longer met the criteria for the previous identifier. That
seems to be the case with Drummond Airport.



I wouldn't be surprised if KDRU shows up somewhere else in
the next few years.


I think that unlikely. Remember, the identifier for Drummond VOR is still
DRU, only the airport identifier was changed.

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

40N in Pennsylvania has had an ILS and weather reporting for
many years. I've never heard any plans to give it a three letter;
it certainly deserves one based on the FAA's criteria. Anybody
know why this airport doesn't receive a new identifier?


One does not have to look hard to find deviations from the identifier
criteria. For example, the first and second letters or second and third
letters or third and first letters of a three-letter identifier are not
supposed to be duplicated with less than 200 nautical miles separation. ATW
is Outagamie County Airport in Appleton, WI. MTW is Manitowoc County
Airport, 37 miles ESE of ATW. AUW is Wausau Downtown Airport, 62 miles
northwest of ATW.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Jeff Saylor" wrote in message
...

The strange thing is that they bothered removing the identifier that
had already been issued; there must have been a compelling reason
to make a change beyond the fact it didn't meet the criteria for a
new 3 letter.


I'm not sure I follow you. Many airports have had their identifiers changed
when they no longer met the criteria for the previous identifier. That
seems to be the case with Drummond Airport.

But my point is, what is the compelling reason to change now? Presumably the
criteria for three letter id's is somewhat strict because the availability of
three letters is pretty finite.

Some non collocated VORs have had their ID changed from the same as the nearby
airport (e.g. Williamsport, Pa), some have not (e.g. Manchester, Nh; Pottstown,
Pa). Perhaps the relatively recent K prefix for lower 48 airports has
rendered the changes unnecessary.

I wouldn't be surprised if KDRU shows up somewhere else in
the next few years.


I think that unlikely. Remember, the identifier for Drummond VOR is still
DRU, only the airport identifier was changed.

Maybe they needed it for 40N