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#31
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Anyone who honestly thinks this is wrong, please convince me.
I think everyone here more or less agrees with you but the point of this discussion is what the actual rules say and when the FAA might go after someone for bending them. So in other words, if you're just an average guy with a PPL, have no intention of going for a commercial rating (or even an instrument ticket, since the aircraft you usually fly isn't equipped for such), and have spent (and intend to spend) your flying time just buzzing around, doing aerobatics, visiting friends, taking trips to fly-ins, and buying expensive hamburgers, then they won't really care? |
#32
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"Bob Martin" wrote in message ... Anyone who honestly thinks this is wrong, please convince me. I think everyone here more or less agrees with you but the point of this discussion is what the actual rules say and when the FAA might go after someone for bending them. So in other words, if you're just an average guy with a PPL, have no intention of going for a commercial rating (or even an instrument ticket, since the aircraft you usually fly isn't equipped for such), and have spent (and intend to spend) your flying time just buzzing around, doing aerobatics, visiting friends, taking trips to fly-ins, and buying expensive hamburgers, then they won't really care? That seems to be the general consensus, yes. However, get someone annoyed at you enough and something like this could become an issue. |
#33
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To all in the group!
I did the unforgivable mistake last night of posting after a party.... Someone was probably insulted by my attempts at sarcasm (war on terror etc...) So here goes: I will never drink & post I will never drink & post I will never drink & post I will never drink & post I will never drink & post I will never drink & post I will never drink & post I will never drink & post I will never drink & post I will never drink & post I will never drink & post I will never drink & post I will never drink & post I will never drink & post There.... Apologise to anyone offended. Frode "Frode Berg" skrev i melding ... All this seems like big BS! Are you really this concerned with this in the US????? Surely, war on terror is more important....? hehe.... Seriously. I am a hobby pilot. I do not intend ever to consider a CFI rating. However, I log all my hours. OK, say I'm really broke. Honestly, I can't afford to fly 5 minutes, but a friend really wants a short hop over town. He says, he'll pay the 30 dollars or whatever it costs. We do it, and nobody cares. So what?????? Now, if i do this ever once in a while, and 15 years down the line, I figure i don't wanna be a musician anymore, but a full time parachute jump pilot.... OK, I get my CFI rating. Would I have to confess to God for this, or take 40 beatings of the FAA whip? It doesn't make sense. Isn't the idea that we should all be safe up there??? I'd say that it's far better that some geezer pay my 30 bucks and I get my 30 minutes of flying now and then rather then making the sky unsafe to all the paying passengers of airliners caose I am not allowed to fly without spending my own money. Oh well, maybe US is different.....or I'm probably ignorant...(or too drunk...hehe) Here in my country we probably have the same rules. However, most pilots bend them in this regard, but in my opinion, this makes a safer sky. This is one rule bent that actually makes it way safer to do this! Letting someone else pay for you fyling them around, therefore beeing a better pilot. This must be the goal for all of us right? Anyone who honestly thinks this is wrong, please convince me. And please, no BS about commercial planes loosing gigs. Which commercial firms would even start up their planes for 30 bucks??? Frode "Robert M. Gary" skrev i melding om... (BllFs6) wrote in message ... The FAA has said in the past that flying for free is compensation and requires a commercial. For CFIs its very easy since we already have a commercial, we just need to keep up our class 2 medical. Most CFIs do because it allows you to do the occasional local sight seeing pax too. -Robert What if you did the "rescue" flight but you DID NOT log the hours? Would that count? Or would you get in trouble for some OTHER rule violation for not logging some hours you actually flew? take care Its not the logging its the enjoying. You would have to prove that you did not enjoy the flight, therefore its not compensation. -Robert |
#34
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Frode Berg wrote:
I did the unforgivable mistake last night of posting after a party.... Whatever. Thing is, you are right. It is an overly restrictive regulation, and only the wisdom (and workload) of most FAA types keeps it from being applied as it might be. Jack |
#35
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"Roger Long" wrote in message
.. . Yes, you were bad. You broke the rules and the FAA could suspend your license. I've seen the opinion letter. I went round and round on this since our club doesn't make members pay when they move the plane for maintenance. I called up our local FSDO and asked if this kind of thing was a violation. They said, "Of course not, that's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. Who told you that?" I faxed them a copy of the FAA counsel's opinion letter and they called back to say sheepishly that I was right. However they said that they have far too much to do to ever worry about something like that. In what way do you believe that the scenarios described in the FAA counsel's opinion letter relate to the scenario described by Joe Johnson, or in fact to the scenario of accepting free flying for maintenance? All the scenarios in the letter involve an explicit payment in respect of the flight by an Organization B to an Organization A. The counsel's opinion revolves around this payment. "A private pilot may not get paid to carry passengers or cargo and, even if he does not get paid, he may not carry paying passengers or cargo if the carriage has been paid to someone else. It should be further noted that a private pilot may not serve as pilot in command of such an operation even when he/she elects to forego actual monetary compensation..." (my emphasis ) The "operation" cannot be conducted by a private pilot only because one organization has paid a carriage fee for those passengers to another organization. To do so would violate the first part of 61.113(a). The counsel's opinion (Answer 2) is that the circumstances of the flight are not covered by the exemption of 61.113(d). If no such payment takes place, the passengers are not being carried for compensation or hire. The counsel offers no opinion on this scenario in his letter. It's quite clear that the counsel note is reinforcing the principle that a private pilot cannot act as PIC of an air transportation operation even if the private pilot is not reimbursed. This is not hair-splitting as you suggest in your response to Peter Gottlieb, but reading the answers in the context of the questions. Julian Scarfe |
#36
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There's the regs as they're written and then there's the regs as they
are enforced. In order for the FAA to really go after you for this you'd have to really tempt them in some way. If someone were "hanging around the office and heard something" odds are you'd just get a letter saying "don't do that anymore." As for the insurance company (the regulatory agency that *really* determines how many of us fly), it's a question of how they would know? Let's say on your way up there, the engine quits and you put it down in a field. Where I rent, I pay for the rental after I come back. How does mister insurance man know I was breaking the rules? Just remember a rule I learned when I was in a fraternity in college. If you're doing something you shouldn't be, don't take pictures. It's not the act that gets you in trouble, it's the paper trail. Stupid laws mostly teach honest people how to break them. -cwk. |
#37
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"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
om... There's the regs as they're written and then there's the regs as they are enforced. In order for the FAA to really go after you for this you'd have to really tempt them in some way. If someone were "hanging around the office and heard something" odds are you'd just get a letter saying "don't do that anymore." If you're going to break the law, minimize your chances of getting caught. Good advice, but surely it's useful to differentiate between that which is illegal but not enforced, and that which is perfectly legal in the first place?! Julian |
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