NOTAM

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" wrote in message
...

"This may not seem significant, but it could become so. The FAA
doesn't give the impression that it wants to regulate model airplanes,
but it does have responsibility for all of the navigable airspace in
the United States, and we fly in that airspace.


Do you? Are model airplanes generally flown above 500' AGL?

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:32:44 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" wrote in message
.. .

"This may not seem significant, but it could become so. The FAA
doesn't give the impression that it wants to regulate model airplanes,
but it does have responsibility for all of the navigable airspace in
the United States, and we fly in that airspace.

Do you? Are model airplanes generally flown above 500' AGL?

Depends on the modeler and the model.

I would say that on most flights I get above 500' AGL at least
some of the time.

You might notice that the NOTAM in question assumes that
the FAA can ban model flights altogether, regardless of the
altitude. It may be overreaching, but I don't have the money
to take them to court to prove that it is.

Marty

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" wrote in message
...

Seems to me I've also seen some alititude restrictions imposed
on RC models flying near full-scale airfields. I think that at my
field (Reservoir Park, Lewiston, NY), we're technically
not supposed to go above 500 feet. Some of the larger
models (~40% scale) apparently can be seen on the radar
screens at Niagara Falls (IAG).

Marty,

A dumb question: other than eyeballing and estimating, how exactly does
someone controlling a RC model know its altitude?


--
David Herman
N6170T 1965 Cessna 150E
Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Visit the Pacific Northwest Flying Forum:
http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying

DanH wrote:




I don't know, but does the FAA even have jurisdiction over model
airplanes and rockets? It seems you would have to get a city ordinance
or something like that to keep these from flying.

To fly model rockets you have to get a waiver from FSDO to be legal.

"Newps" wrote in message
...

To fly model rockets you have to get a waiver from FSDO to be legal.


Even those toy Estes ones?

We have given those to CAP cadets to play with, have we done so illegally?
Should we end the cadet rocketry program?

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" wrote in message
...

Depends on the modeler and the model.

I would say that on most flights I get above 500' AGL at least
some of the time.


How do you know it's altitude?



You might notice that the NOTAM in question assumes that
the FAA can ban model flights altogether, regardless of the
altitude. It may be overreaching, but I don't have the money
to take them to court to prove that it is.


The US government doesn't have Constitutional authority for most of it's
activities.

"Newps" wrote in message
...

To fly model rockets you have to get a waiver from FSDO to be legal.


No you don't, model rockets are not regulated by FAR.

"Peter Gottlieb" wrote in message
et...

To fly model rockets you have to get a waiver from FSDO to be legal.


Even those toy Estes ones?


See FAR 101.1(a)(3) below:


Title 14--Aeronauticsand Space

CHAPTER I--FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

SUBCHAPTER F--AIR TRAFFIC AND GENERAL OPERATING RULES

PART 101--MOORED BALLOONS, KITES, UNMANNED ROCKETS AND UNMANNED FREE
BALLOONS

§ 101.1 Applicability.

(a) This part prescribes rules governing the operation in the United
States,
of the following:

(1) Except as provided for in §101.7, any balloon that is moored to the
surface of the earth or an object thereon and that has a diameter of more
than 6 feet or a gas capacity of more than 115 cubic feet.

(2) Except as provided for in §101.7, any kite that weighs more than 5
pounds and is intended to be flown at the end of a rope or cable.

(3) Any unmanned rocket except:

(i) Aerial firework displays; and,

(ii) Model rockets:

(a) Using not more than four ounces of propellant;

(b) Using a slow-burning propellant;

(c) Made of paper, wood, or breakable plastic, containing no
substantial
metal parts and weighing not more than 16 ounces, including the propellant;
and

(d) Operated in a manner that does not create a hazard to persons,
property, or other aircraft.

(4) Except as provided for in §101.7, any unmanned free balloon that-

(i) Carries a payload package that weighs more than four pounds and
has a weight/size ratio of more than three ounces per square inch on any
surface
of the package, determined by dividing the total weight in ounces of the
payload package by the area in square inches of its smallest surface;

(ii) Carries a payload package that weighs more than six pounds;

(iii) Carries a payload, of two or more packages, that weighs more
than 12
pounds; or

(iv) Uses a rope or other device for suspension of the payload that
requires
an impact force of more than 50 pounds to separate the suspended payload
from the balloon.

(b) For the purposes of this part, a gyroglider attached to a vehicle on
the
surface of the earth is considered to be a kite.

[Doc. No. 1580, 28 FR 6721, June 29, 1963, as amended by Amdt. 101-1, 29 FR
46, Jan. 3, 1964; Amdt. 101-3, 35 FR 8213, May 26, 1970]

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Peter Gottlieb" wrote in message
et...

To fly model rockets you have to get a waiver from FSDO to be legal.


Even those toy Estes ones?


See FAR 101.1(a)(3) below:



Ah, looks like we are ok. Thanks.

In article , Newps writes:
I don't know, but does the FAA even have jurisdiction over model
airplanes and rockets? It seems you would have to get a city ordinance
or something like that to keep these from flying.

To fly model rockets you have to get a waiver from FSDO to be legal.

Incorrect.

To fly MODEL rockets (MR up to 1#), you need do NOTHING. FAR 101.1
completely exempts them from FAA regulation.

To fly LARGE MODEL ROCKETS (LMR 1.0-3.3#) you need to NOTIFY the FAA. FAR
101.22 Again, you are NOT requesting permission.

To fly HIGH POWER ROCKETS (HPR over 3.3#) you need to fill out the same
waiver form used for air shows, in advance (30-45 days) and get the FAA
permission in advance.

Under the current regulations, the FAA does not have the authority to ban
model rocket operations that are exempted under FAR 101.1 or 101.22. We flew
the weekend after 9/11 in spite of many other things being shut down.

Note that the FAA regulations say NOTHING about altitude. It's theoretically
possible for a model exempted under FAR 101.1 to go as high as 7000' AGL.
Yet I've got a model that falls into the HPR category, but only goes up
about 150'. As I've said many times, "It's the government, it doesn't have
to make sense"

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf
www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org

Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html