Pathetic Pilot Salaries

He also said that in a few
years there will be a pilot shortage.

In 1903 there were two pilots and one airplane in Kitty Hawk.....there was not
a pilot shortage then... and there never will be.

Walt

"Jon Woellhaf" wrote in message
news:byNXc.320527$a24.128126@attbi_s03...
"Here to there" wrote, "... The question asking how many barbers there are
in the U.S. tends to confuse [people he's interviewing], too."

How many barbers in th eUS? None. They are now all hair stylists,
coiffeurs,
hairdressers, beauticians, cosmetologists, folicular engineers, or
personal
appearance consultants.



Not mine! He is an honest to goodnesss BARBER. If you called him anything
else he'd bitch slap you and you'd stay bitch slapped.

Vic,

I'm 35 and I have left a flying career for the IT field. I went back
to school this year, and got a job out of it. My starting salary in
IT is the same as it was after being in the commuters for 10
years(started at 16K/year). It was not worth torturing my family
anymore. And, 6 out of 8 of my collegues that made it out and got on
with the majors, have been laid off since 2002, after maybe a year or
two with them. I don't recommend it to anyone unless your in college
and just have to give it that shot like we all wanted to.

I'd recommend getting your IFR, commercial, CFI, and if you have the
spare cash your multi engine rating. I keep active flying by flight
instructing. You can do it on the side, and still support your
family. If you get busy enough w/ students, you can do IT consulting
on the side.

Good Luck.
Peter

(Vic) wrote in message om...
Hi,

I am a 35 year old software programmer thinking about a possible
career change into aviation. I am currently working on my PPL.
I've come to know some pilots who are currently flying for ASA and
Comair. Both of them made UNDER 17,000.00 last year. They are both
young guys without families, homes,etc.. so it's a bit easier for
them to ride this through. Anyhow, since I haven't made up my mind
yet, I would love to hear from any of you who have been in a similar
situation. Especially if you are around my age, made the switch from a
previous career, are married, have children and a mortgage. You get my
point. How do you pay continue to pay the bills? I will obviously take
a huge hit salary speaking, but I was shocked at how low the starting
salaries are!! With my wife, children and mortgage, I could qualify
for food stamps on that kind of pay. Also, since that would put my
family below the poverty level, would I even have to pay income tax?
Not to mention I will also have to make payments on student loans if
I choose to go ahead with this.

My CFI tells me to avoid the regionals at all costs. He suggests
flying corporate, but after some research the starting salaries for a
corporate pilot seem to be just as low. He also said that in a few
years there will be a pilot shortage. If there is a pilot shortage in
3-5 years, what does this actually mean for newly rated commercial
pilots who are looking for their first job? If anyone has any thoughts
I would love to hear them. Thanks in advance!

Vic

"Michael" wrote in message
m...
There will NEVER be a shortage of such pilots.
You know how long it takes to turn a
college-educated private pilot with 80 hours into a
commercial/multi/IFR/CFI/CFII/MEI? 90 days. AllATP's does it all the
time. With that short a pipeline, what makes you think there could
ever be a shortage?

Yup. And even the college requirement (for airlines) is just a way to winnow
the glut of qualified applicants. Nothing about flying requires more than a
high-school education.

--Gary

"Vic" wrote in message
m...
Hi,

I am a 35 year old software programmer thinking about a possible
career change into aviation. I am currently working on my PPL.
I've come to know some pilots who are currently flying for ASA and
Comair. Both of them made UNDER 17,000.00 last year. They are both
young guys without families, homes,etc.. so it's a bit easier for
them to ride this through. Anyhow, since I haven't made up my mind
yet, I would love to hear from any of you who have been in a similar
situation. Especially if you are around my age, made the switch from a
previous career, are married, have children and a mortgage. You get my
point. How do you pay continue to pay the bills? I will obviously take
a huge hit salary speaking, but I was shocked at how low the starting
salaries are!! With my wife, children and mortgage, I could qualify
for food stamps on that kind of pay. Also, since that would put my
family below the poverty level, would I even have to pay income tax?
Not to mention I will also have to make payments on student loans if
I choose to go ahead with this.

My CFI tells me to avoid the regionals at all costs. He suggests
flying corporate, but after some research the starting salaries for a
corporate pilot seem to be just as low. He also said that in a few
years there will be a pilot shortage.

More than likely what will happen is that in 3 to 5 years $17K will be
considered an excellent salary. There never has been a pilot shortage.
Airlines start to hire and people think it is a pilot shortage. It is simply
a bump in hiring.

If there is a pilot shortage in
3-5 years, what does this actually mean for newly rated commercial
pilots who are looking for their first job? If anyone has any thoughts
I would love to hear them. Thanks in advance!

Vic

"Dan Luke" wrote
market is destroying the unionized carriers. The $200K left-seater is a
fading anachronism.

Actually, Southwest is unionized and they're doing great. Of course
they are not an ALPA shop, and their pilots don't make what the rest
of the industry is making. Still, they do fairly well - and Southwest
is probably a pretty good indication of where the salaries will
stabilize. Maybe.

For now, Southwest still has to compete with other carriers in hiring.
I have a feeling most of those other carriers are not going to be
around much longer. Having a bunch of senior jet pilots dumped on the
market is going to do amazing things.

Realistically, at the airline captain level, you're talking about a
job with supervisory duties and technical proficiency requirements
that requires a college degree in a reasonably technical subject,
expensive training, paying a lot of dues, and at least 10 years of
post-college experience. What's more, lots of those who head in that
direction don't make it. That calls for a salary in the low six/high
five figures to make it worthwhile, and that's where salaries are
going to stabilize.

It will be interesting to
see where pay bottoms out, and what the general quality of Part 121 pilots
will be when it does.

My bet is that is stabilizes right around $100K in today's dollars for
major airline captains, and the quality of the pilots (as measured in
accident rate) will not change.

Michael

Maybe glamourous wasn't the best word, but you illustrate the point of
people being motivated for reasons beyond the pay.

Mike
MU-2




"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
om...
"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
k.net...

Salaries will always be low in an occupation considered to be glamorous.

When was the last time a large segment of the population considering
flying a Beech 1900 or CRJ glamorous? Once upon a time, back in Pan
Am's glory days perhaps, it was a "rock star" kind of job. Now most
people view them as bus drivers who program autopilots. And most of
them don't even know about the dog!

To be fair, I'd love to have my brother-in-law's job. He flies 767s
for UPS all over the world, spending two days at a time in downtown
hotels in Manila, Bangkok, Singapore, Bombay, Dubai, Copenhagen, etc.
Good pay, expenses, etc. I'm 28 and single, he's 42 and has an
adorable 2 year old son. Anyway, I'd go that way (I work in IT sales
now) but I also watched him work his way up from CFI through traffic
watch, night freight, and so on over close to ten years before he got
that "glamorous" job that one little medical issue could yank out from
under him.

Best,
-cwk.

Vic,

When I went to college (spent the first semester at Embry-Riddle), I had
to chose between flying and engineering. I couldn't afford the flying,
so I chose engineering, figuring (correctly) that I could then afford to
fly. That was 25 years ago. I now do C++, Java, Windoze, and Linux
(scientific and engineering software), got my IR last year, and am
working on my commercial now. Not to fly in the majors. I just love
the idea of taking people for rides and would love to have the
opportunity to do scenic flights during foliage season. If I were to
pick my dream job, it would be teaching high school physics. At this
point in my life, though, I have a wife, kid, and mortgage (and part of
a plane) to support. Starting salary, though better than flying, is
around $26K here. Maybe in 10 years, I can teach and fly a bit on the
side, but not now. I fly for fun (and it is fun) when I want. I chose
software development as a career, partially because I could have more of
a choice where to live (one of the reasons I got out of Aeronautical
Engineering). I guess this is a long-winded way of saying: If you are
truly that passionate about flying, see if you can make it work. Just
recognize the hurdles, and realize that, at this stage in your life,
it's not just about you. Some of the other posters have made references
to the time away from home. Personally, that wouldn't bother me if I
only had a wife, but kids are an entirely different story. They're only
5 once.

Vic wrote:
Hi,

I am a 35 year old software programmer thinking about a possible
career change into aviation. I am currently working on my PPL.
I've come to know some pilots who are currently flying for ASA and
Comair. Both of them made UNDER 17,000.00 last year. They are both
young guys without families, homes,etc.. so it's a bit easier for
them to ride this through. Anyhow, since I haven't made up my mind
yet, I would love to hear from any of you who have been in a similar
situation. Especially if you are around my age, made the switch from a
previous career, are married, have children and a mortgage. You get my
point. How do you pay continue to pay the bills? I will obviously take
a huge hit salary speaking, but I was shocked at how low the starting
salaries are!! With my wife, children and mortgage, I could qualify
for food stamps on that kind of pay. Also, since that would put my
family below the poverty level, would I even have to pay income tax?
Not to mention I will also have to make payments on student loans if
I choose to go ahead with this.

My CFI tells me to avoid the regionals at all costs. He suggests
flying corporate, but after some research the starting salaries for a
corporate pilot seem to be just as low. He also said that in a few
years there will be a pilot shortage. If there is a pilot shortage in
3-5 years, what does this actually mean for newly rated commercial
pilots who are looking for their first job? If anyone has any thoughts
I would love to hear them. Thanks in advance!

Vic


--
Remove "2PLANES" to reply.

Flying ceases to be fun when it becomes work.

Paul Tomblin wrote:

What's the next technology trend? I don't know, but I'm damn sure I'm
going to teach it to myself before Java on Linux jobs dry up.

Yep, you've done things the right way so far. I missed the step over to C++ and
sidestepped to writing requirements. Wrong move, but the job market's picking up
there again. Pick up PERL while you're at it. For some reason, that's hot now.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.