knowledge test results coming back to haunt you

Recently, chris priest" "cp3[remove-this-part]68202
posted:

G.R. Patterson III wrote:


chris priest wrote:

On the flip side, when you are doing a
cross country, you *can* afford to skip writing down your time en
route between checkpoints in your flight log if you are preoccupied
with your VOR receiver failing.


Actually, if your VOR appears to be in the process of going TU, it's
*more* important that you have accurate times recorded. You're
likely to be reduced to pure pilotage soon, and if you don't know
how long ago you passed your last waypoint, that's going to be more
difficult (and perhaps impossible).

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the
people he gives it to.

Sorry, that was just a quick and dirty example. Lets then assume this
pilot's plane has GPS equipped.

And, you think that makes matters different somehow?

Look. Let's make it simpler. Your arguments amount to saying that the
knowledge test information is optional. That's a preposterous notion, and
an indication that you really should spend more time studying than arguing
here.

The point isn't to score well, it's to master the information critical to
flying an aircraft. Guess what happens when you do that? You'll score well
on the test, too. And, if you don't master the critical information, it's
not likely that you'll turn out to be much of a pilot, much less a career
pilot.

So, just make up your mind as to where you want to be.

Neil

Neil Gould wrote:


The point isn't to score well, it's to master the information critical to
flying an aircraft. Guess what happens when you do that? You'll score well
on the test, too. And, if you don't master the critical information, it's
not likely that you'll turn out to be much of a pilot, much less a career
pilot.

Yeah and it's absolutely critical that you understand which way the
compass initially swings when starting a turn. So much of the
knoweledge test is pure crap.

chris priest wrote:

Is it really important to concentrate on a perfect on-center smooth
landing every time, or to just focus on landing each flight safely?

A consistently positive attitude is needed, because there are more
aspects to doing a job well day in and day out than you may suspect. Do
the best you can every time. You can be sure that there will be plenty
of times when that isn't as good as you might like it to be. Sometimes
getting it on the ground safely will be all you can do, and you want the
threshold for those times to be VERY high -- as high as you can make it.

At your stage in life you really don't know enough to decide what is
good enough, whether it's cleaning toilets or flying airplanes, which is
why you are working for someone else. That's normal. The fact that you
have devoted paragraphs here to justifying your lackadaisical attitude
tells me the odds may not be in your favor. Do your best and you will
move forward. Otherwise cleaning toilets may be as far as you ever get.


Jack

Chris,
From your description of your ground work, it shouldn't take all that much
effort to study toward a score in the 90's so that you (and your father)
can come away proud of your score. Instead, it sounds like you are taking
efforts to ensure that you score the lowest score possible without failing,
just so your dad can't be proud of you.

The risk there, of course, is that unless you actually know 100% of the
right answers, you might make a mistake and end up failing after all. Now
THAT is a TOTAL waste of time and money!

As far as landing on the centerline every time - on a 150' wide runway, it
probably is not very critical. But if you were landing on a narrow runway,
it might be more important. And if you let yourself get sloppy on the 150'
wide runway because it didn't matter, you might get into a world of trouble
when you found yourself on a 40' wide runway with other objects along the
sides... If instead you consistently landed on the center line, after a few
hundred landings it might not be so hard anymore, and you'd do it without
much effort every time - so that if you got to a narrow and short runway,
you could focus on the other, more critical novelties...

The same thing even goes for toilet bowl cleaning. While I'm no expert, I
would agree that the first time you cleaned the toilets inside and out with
a dishrag and some spray soap, it might not make much difference. But after
a few weeks, the toilets would no longer look the way they do now - between
destroying the porcelain with soap that is too harsh, and spreading the
germs and bacteria from the inside to the outside. And the cost of
replacing all of the toilets or of losing customers because the toilets are
gross would be much higher than spending a few extra minutes every day
cleaning the toilets correctly...


The cost of getting good grades and studying properly for your flight
training will payoff later - even if you don't realize it. Be mature enough
to recognize that the easy way out is usually not the best...



chris priest wrote in
:

It just seems silly to me to have to spend all of that time studying
just to get a perfect score, when you can spend 80% less time studying
and still pass, giving you the same result. My summer job currently is
basically being a janitor at a RV park. My job is to pick up trash,
clean the bathrooms, sweep the floors; stuff like that. The biggest
thing I dislike about this job is how they instructed me to clean the
bathrooms. I have to spray the toilet bowl with chemical #5, then
chemical #7, then after a few minutes, I have to scrub the inside of
the bowl with brush #1 soaked in bleach. The the outside of the toilet
with brush #2 in bleach. After that I have to wipe it down with a wet
rag, then with a dry rag. Then I have to do it all over again to the
rest of the toilets. After this whole process the toilets have the
exact same appearance they did before I started. It just seems like I
spent all that effort for nothing. I could have achieved the same
effect with a 30 second spray-n-wipe then be done with.

I sort of feel the same when I study for these knowledge tests. I don't
see any reason to go all out when a 70 is all thats required. Thats not
to say only 70% of all there is to know is only worth having.

I don't see the written exam tests as the SAT. To me the only point of
taking the test is to pass. The grade is irrelevant. Heck, when I took
my PAR, I remember skipping questions because I just didn't want to do
them. They were mostly those calculating problems that use the E6B
which I knew how to do, I just didn't see the point in laboring over
the problem, when i could have as easily skipped it. I must have did
this a lot, as you all know I came close to not passing. Now, mind you,
if I was in the air, I would have done the calculation without second
thought. It's all about putting the effort where it belongs.

Looking back, I probably had too much confidence. I'm part 141, and
during ground school I never got below a 85 on all of my tests, so I
have no doubt in my mind that I was going to pass that test. When I
take my instrument knowledge test sometime in the next week, I'll most
likely use a slightly diffrent approach, but I'm still not going in
there with a 100% as my goal. My goal will be to pass.

Is it really important to concentrate on a perfect on-center smooth
landing every time, or to just focus on landing each flight safely?

You failed to perform proper risk management.

You failed to properly asses the benefit of saving a few minutes by
skipping a few questions with the risk that you may have just blown your
chances at a serious aviation career by passing by the skin of your teeth.

Fortunately for you, it turns out that your omission may not actually cost
you an aviation career, but since you didn't know it at the time, it was
undoubtedly bad judgement...


chris priest wrote in
:

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

As for skipping questions because you are confident of passing the
test, this too displays an attitude towards taking shortcuts. It might
be worthwhile for you to read about risk management.

I understand there are things you can risk, and then there are things
you just can't risk. When you are on final approach, you just *can not*
skip those final checklist items. On the flip side, when you are doing
a cross country, you *can* afford to skip writing down your time en
route between checkpoints in your flight log if you are preoccupied
with your VOR receiver failing. I felt like I could afford to skip
certain questions on my test and not have it negatively effect (meaning
fail) the test.

Risk management is all about *managing* risks, not avoiding any sort of
situation imaginable that may in some slight way have a negative
effect. There are tons of things experienced pilots do that could in
some way negatively effect safety of a flight, such as neglecting a
micrology while dealing with an emergency. These are unavoidable and
they happen all the time. The difference between a good pilot and a bad
one is that pilot's ability to deal with these situations, and what
they choose to omit, and not omit.

I didn't go in there and skip every question, as that would have been
poor risk management. I only skipped those questions which I knew would
not effect my ultimate goal which is, and always has been passing. When
I did the SAT, I did not skip any questions because that would have
lowered my score and the goal there is to get the best score you can.
The FAA knowledge tests are not the SAT.

Now on the other hand, if the grade is something that could come back
to haunt me come time to get a job, then I would say what I did was
wrong. That was the whole point of this thread. Will the grade effect
me? If so then I'll try to get a 100 next time. If it doesn't, then I
won't sweat it. Either way I'm going to pass the test and begin my
training aloft where I'll cement the things the things in my mind that
I didn't already know. Isn't that the whole point in doing the oral
part of the checkride?

chris priest wrote:

snip

Looking back, I probably had too much confidence. I'm part 141, and
during ground school I never got below a 85 on all of my tests, so I
have no doubt in my mind that I was going to pass that test. When I take
my instrument knowledge test sometime in the next week, I'll most likely
use a slightly diffrent approach, but I'm still not going in there with
a 100% as my goal. My goal will be to pass.

Is it really important to concentrate on a perfect on-center smooth
landing every time, or to just focus on landing each flight safely?

LOL! You had me going before this post. Hopefully anyone leaning
toward the position you parody will learn something from this
exchange!
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

If you want to fare well during a no-gyro approach in IMC in a plane that
has no GPS, yeah probably.


Newps wrote in
:



Neil Gould wrote:


The point isn't to score well, it's to master the information critical
to flying an aircraft. Guess what happens when you do that? You'll
score well on the test, too. And, if you don't master the critical
information, it's not likely that you'll turn out to be much of a
pilot, much less a career pilot.

Yeah and it's absolutely critical that you understand which way the
compass initially swings when starting a turn. So much of the
knoweledge test is pure crap.

Newps wrote in
:



Neil Gould wrote:


The point isn't to score well, it's to master the information
critical to flying an aircraft. Guess what happens when you do that?
You'll score well on the test, too. And, if you don't master the
critical information, it's not likely that you'll turn out to be much
of a pilot, much less a career pilot.

Yeah and it's absolutely critical that you understand which way the
compass initially swings when starting a turn. So much of the
knoweledge test is pure crap.


Not all questions may be useful for flying, but I wouldn't necessarily call
it pure crap. In my instructing career I have seen a strong correlation
between flying skills and test scores. This is not because the written test
is a good indicator of aviation knowledge, but because the students who
strive to score high also strive do perform well in all aspects of flying.

chris priest wrote in message ...

So does it really matter, or is my dad just being a over-achiever?

You already know the answer. That voice that nagged you into posting
here is your moral compass. It's a pretty old-fashioned instrument and
a lot of people say it's obsolete, but you'll find it works well when
everything else fails.

I personally feel that if the test results indeed do effect me in the
long run, it shouldn't.

As you get older you'll find that there's few things the world suffers
less gladly than an "A" student who makes excuses for "C" performance.

Based on the attitude you've displayed here, I wouldn't want you
anywhere near my business.

Best,
-cwk.

"C Kingsbury" wrote Based on the attitude you've
displayed here, I wouldn't want you
anywhere near my business.

Best,
-cwk.

----Troll alert----

Can't everyone see? This is so stupid, I sure hope it is a joke.

I give a written safety test to my carpentry students. They are given it
repeatedly, if necessary, until they get every question right. If they miss
a question, who knows it that will be the bit of information they needed to
avoid cutting a finger off. I see a strong correlation to a written test
about flying and being safe.
--
Jim in NC (covering my butt)