Jammed Elevator

Question:
Say again your thoughts/concerns/decisions regarding flaps extension?
Thx,
VL
PS: Good job on the landing!

If left alone it would have pitched over seeking trim speed with a
resultant zoom right back up. Not a ride I wanted to participate
in.

That part I can agree with.

I'm not criticizing your performance, because you did well in an
emergency, but I do think that it's important not to let any readers
walk away with the idea that the way to prevent a stall is bank the
aircraft.

sounds like the phugoid contributed to the adrenaline level.

That's my interp.

"john smith" wrote in message
...
Yes, Peter, I do know that.

Then why did you write "the trim works independent of the elevator". It
certainly does not. It relies on the elevator to do its job. It is
anything *but* independent of the elevator.

There are examples of airplanes with trim that *truly* works "independent of
the elevator". For example, airplanes with horizontal stabilizers that are
adjusted with the trim control, but which have a regular elevator as well
(i.e. *not* a stabilator-equipped airplane). Another example are the Lake
amphibians, which have one or two (depending on the model) elevator-like
control surfaces (commonly called "split elevator"), hinged and controlled
completely independently from the elevator itself.

Your original comment about elevator trim made no mention of the fact that
the elevator trim behaves opposite from normal when the elevator is stuck,
nor did your follow-up post. It was not clear at all that you understood
what the elevator trim did; assuming that none of this is news to you, I
suggest you could use some work on being more specific about what you post,
and not writing things that mean something other than what you really intend
(like using the word "independent" when it's not applicable at all).

Pete

In article ,
wrote:



It sounds like somebodys joke almost killed you.
Was the glove present on takeoff?


I'm sure it wasn't there before takeoff. Part of my pretakeoff check is
to look at the trim tab to confirm it's setting.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

In article k.net,
Rich Lemert wrote:



How difficult would it have been to land the aircraft using only
power, rudder, and ailerons?

It would have been possible I think. But to make that landing I would
want a long runway and some Crash/Fire/Rescue resources. The closest
place is about 30nm away.

Did you have some reason, not given in the narrative, for believing
that you would be able to return the elevator to at least its current
position?

Yes. I was able early on to push the yoke forward slightly, although it
took a great deal of pressure to do so. I knew there was some risk of
making the situation worse, but felt that I would be able to get the
elevator back to a workable position if need be.

Did the fact that you were ready (and able) to bail out if necessary
influence your decision-making? (In other words, would you have done
the same things if you knew you had to live [or die] with any
irreversible negative changes you imposed on the situation?)

I can't honestly answer that. I have made over 700 jumps so the thought
of leaving the airplane isn't a big deal. Having the parachute does
open some options, or at least reduce the risk of death.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

In article ,
"dennis brown" wrote:

As I recall, you said it stabilized at about 80 kts, reduced power, slight
descent.
Sounds like you had a nice approach set up. 80 might be a tad high for a
light
206. At what speed did it stabilize with no power?

Less than about 14 inches and the nose would drop, more than about 14
inches and the nose would pitch up.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

In article ,
(MLenoch) wrote:

Question:
Say again your thoughts/concerns/decisions regarding flaps extension?


I didn't consider the flaps at the time. If I had been forced to land
with the elevator jammed I would have experimented while still at
altitude to find a way to get into a survivable landing attitude..flaps
would be on the list of items to try.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

In article ,
john smith wrote:

Yes, Peter, I do know that.
It is very evident when preflighting an aircraft.
When you raise or lower the elevator, the trim tab moves variably with
the angle of the elevator.

Not on the single engine Cessna aircraft it doesn't. With the possible
exception of the Cardinal which has a stabilator.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

In article ,
Greg Esres wrote:



I'm not criticizing your performance, because you did well in an
emergency, but I do think that it's important not to let any readers
walk away with the idea that the way to prevent a stall is bank the
aircraft.

Stall was a poor choice of words. I used roll to control pitch. With
an undesired pitchup I think most of us would be thinking about a stall.

I was flying again today and played around a bit on a couple of flights.
The initial elevator position was closer to 1/2 up than 1/3. As the
jumpers are climbing out to exit the power is down to 10 inches or so,
airspeed is about 65kts and I trim nose up since they are moving forward
to exit. After they leave the drill is to close the door, power back up
to 18 inches and pushover for descent. With that much elevator
deflection bringing the power up causes a strong pitchup. I held the
elevator as immobile as I could and allowed it to pitchup to see what
would happen. At about 30-35 degrees of pitch it started to roll off to
the left, airspeed was below 40IAS.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html