Just another nice day over the Mojave

On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article ,
"Larry Dighera" wrote:

Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
Training Center in the Mojave?


Where might that be and what is their to see there?


Thanks



Eric Fletcher

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:40:14 GMT, "Eric Fletcher S.O.C."
wrote in ::

On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article ,
"Larry Dighera" wrote:

Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
Training Center in the Mojave?


Where might that be and what is their to see there?


The DTC was created in April 1942 shortly after the seven simultaneous
Japanese attacks against Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Hong Kong, Guam,
Philippines, Wake Island, and Midway Island. This is where the first
US troops to fight in WW-II were trained to invade North Africa to
prevent Rommel from reaching the oilfields of Arabia. It covered the
western desert from Yuma to Searchlight and Pomona to Prescott, 12
million acres in all. In the desert climate the evidence of the
divisional campsites still remains today.

Here's a link with pictures of the DTC today, and a Sky Trail (similar
to a nature trail) that the Bureau of Land Management is creating for
GA pilots:
http://home.worldnet.att.net/~SkyTra...disclaimer.htm
.. The username is: dtc, and the password is: blm. Click 'Pilots
Guide' on the right of the banner to see the sky trail. There is also
information he http://www.pilotgetaways.com/skytours/index.html

The DTC Sky Trail adds interest and education on the flight from Los
Angeles to Las Vegas/Laughlin.

I'd like to get the BLM to create a similar sky trail over the
intaglios along the Colorado River basin. But that project will have
to wait for motivated volunteers; I just don't have any more time to
devote to these projects.

The sky trail concept is well suited to very large surface features
that can only be appreciated from an aerial vantage point. The
California State Department of Parks established one over Anza Borrego
many years ago (the first and only in the US to my knowledge). I
think GA and the American public would benefit greatly if sky trail
creation were continued throughout the nation. But it takes time. I
originally conceived of the DTC Sky Trail in 1998, and it's still
grinding through the bureaucracy today...

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:40:14 GMT, "Eric Fletcher S.O.C."
wrote in ::

On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article ,
"Larry Dighera" wrote:

Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
Training Center in the Mojave?


Where might that be and what is their to see there?


The DTC was created in April 1942 shortly after the seven simultaneous
Japanese attacks against Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Hong Kong, Guam,
Philippines, Wake Island, and Midway Island. This is where the first
US troops to fight in WW-II were trained to invade North Africa to
prevent Rommel from reaching the oilfields of Arabia. It covered the
western desert from Yuma to Searchlight and Pomona to Prescott, 12
million acres in all. In the desert climate the evidence of the
divisional campsites still remains today.

Here's a link with pictures of the DTC today, and a Sky Trail (similar
to a nature trail) that the Bureau of Land Management is creating for
GA pilots:
http://home.worldnet.att.net/~SkyTra...disclaimer.htm
.. The username is: dtc, and the password is: blm. Click 'Pilots
Guide' on the right of the banner to see the sky trail. There is also
information he http://www.pilotgetaways.com/skytours/index.html

The DTC Sky Trail adds interest and education on the flight from Los
Angeles to Las Vegas/Laughlin.

I'd like to get the BLM to create a similar sky trail over the
intaglios along the Colorado River basin. But that project will have
to wait for motivated volunteers; I just don't have any more time to
devote to these projects.

The sky trail concept is well suited to very large surface features
that can only be appreciated from an aerial vantage point. The
California State Department of Parks established one over Anza Borrego
many years ago (the first and only in the US to my knowledge). I
think GA and the American public would benefit greatly if sky trail
creation were continued throughout the nation. But it takes time. I
originally conceived of the DTC Sky Trail in 1998, and it's still
grinding through the bureaucracy today...

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:40:14 GMT, "Eric Fletcher S.O.C."
wrote in ::

On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article
,
"Larry Dighera" wrote:

Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
Training Center in the Mojave?


Where might that be and what is their to see there?


The DTC was created in April 1942 shortly after the seven simultaneous
Japanese attacks against Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Hong Kong, Guam,
Philippines, Wake Island, and Midway Island. This is where the first
US troops to fight in WW-II were trained to invade North Africa to
prevent Rommel from reaching the oilfields of Arabia. It covered the
western desert from Yuma to Searchlight and Pomona to Prescott, 12
million acres in all. In the desert climate the evidence of the
divisional campsites still remains today.

Here's a link with pictures of the DTC today, and a Sky Trail (similar
to a nature trail) that the Bureau of Land Management is creating for
GA pilots:
http://home.worldnet.att.net/~SkyTra...disclaimer.htm
. The username is: dtc, and the password is: blm. Click 'Pilots
Guide' on the right of the banner to see the sky trail. There is also
information he http://www.pilotgetaways.com/skytours/index.html


Holy Cow, Larry!! I've landed at Chiriaco Summit (L77) a few times and
flown over some of the DTC. I knew it was extensive, but I didn't know
anything about the Sky Trail scheme. I'll have to plan the whole shebang
next time I head for Bullhead City.
Some words of caution worth reiterating for those who haven't flown over
the desert. The first two are Density Altitude. Don't expect typical
performance on a warm day. Like the narrative said, it does get bumpy. I've
never experienced moderate turbulence along that route, but sometimes
passengers react poorly to constant light bumps. When that happens, I
usually climb up a couple thousand feet and it is generally much smoother.
And drink lots of water, the air out here is very dry all year long. Well,
except near the river where the humidity can stay over the 90% mark at
midnight.
Great information, Larry. What can the GA community do to help push the
Sky Trail scheme along? Seems I remember someone plotting the Chisolm and
Oregon Trails not long ago.

How about starting a new thread on that subject line.

Casey

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:40:14 GMT, "Eric Fletcher S.O.C."
wrote in ::

On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article
,
"Larry Dighera" wrote:

Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
Training Center in the Mojave?


Where might that be and what is their to see there?


The DTC was created in April 1942 shortly after the seven simultaneous
Japanese attacks against Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Hong Kong, Guam,
Philippines, Wake Island, and Midway Island. This is where the first
US troops to fight in WW-II were trained to invade North Africa to
prevent Rommel from reaching the oilfields of Arabia. It covered the
western desert from Yuma to Searchlight and Pomona to Prescott, 12
million acres in all. In the desert climate the evidence of the
divisional campsites still remains today.

Here's a link with pictures of the DTC today, and a Sky Trail (similar
to a nature trail) that the Bureau of Land Management is creating for
GA pilots:
http://home.worldnet.att.net/~SkyTra...disclaimer.htm
. The username is: dtc, and the password is: blm. Click 'Pilots
Guide' on the right of the banner to see the sky trail. There is also
information he http://www.pilotgetaways.com/skytours/index.html


Holy Cow, Larry!! I've landed at Chiriaco Summit (L77) a few times and
flown over some of the DTC. I knew it was extensive, but I didn't know
anything about the Sky Trail scheme. I'll have to plan the whole shebang
next time I head for Bullhead City.
Some words of caution worth reiterating for those who haven't flown over
the desert. The first two are Density Altitude. Don't expect typical
performance on a warm day. Like the narrative said, it does get bumpy. I've
never experienced moderate turbulence along that route, but sometimes
passengers react poorly to constant light bumps. When that happens, I
usually climb up a couple thousand feet and it is generally much smoother.
And drink lots of water, the air out here is very dry all year long. Well,
except near the river where the humidity can stay over the 90% mark at
midnight.
Great information, Larry. What can the GA community do to help push the
Sky Trail scheme along? Seems I remember someone plotting the Chisolm and
Oregon Trails not long ago.

How about starting a new thread on that subject line.

Casey

Jay Beckman wrote:

Interesting that you mention going from an SP to a 150.
Yep, I pretty much got checked out in the 152 so that I'd have something
else to fly as a backup. It turned out to help me greatly one day when
I had to fly to my brother's FBO to get checked out in the SP. Needless
to say, the flight back home in the 152 was a let down...but...it *was*
more fun than driving


Now that the weather is beginning to "cool off" here in the Phoenix area,
I'm thinking that I should go get checked out in the 150 for $68 hamburgers
instead of the $100 type.
Repeat after me: "It's cheaper than a 172, it's cheaper than a 172,
it's...".

First impression when I started the 152: "Hey, that does sound like a
big fan". :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Jay Beckman wrote:

Interesting that you mention going from an SP to a 150.
Yep, I pretty much got checked out in the 152 so that I'd have something
else to fly as a backup. It turned out to help me greatly one day when
I had to fly to my brother's FBO to get checked out in the SP. Needless
to say, the flight back home in the 152 was a let down...but...it *was*
more fun than driving


Now that the weather is beginning to "cool off" here in the Phoenix area,
I'm thinking that I should go get checked out in the 150 for $68 hamburgers
instead of the $100 type.
Repeat after me: "It's cheaper than a 172, it's cheaper than a 172,
it's...".

First impression when I started the 152: "Hey, that does sound like a
big fan". :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:01:43 GMT, "Casey Wilson"
wrote in H7yad.4076$ua2.695@trnddc09::


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:40:14 GMT, "Eric Fletcher S.O.C."
wrote in ::

On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article
,
"Larry Dighera" wrote:

Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
Training Center in the Mojave?


Where might that be and what is their to see there?


The DTC was created in April 1942 shortly after the seven simultaneous
Japanese attacks against Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Hong Kong, Guam,
Philippines, Wake Island, and Midway Island. This is where the first
US troops to fight in WW-II were trained to invade North Africa to
prevent Rommel from reaching the oilfields of Arabia. It covered the
western desert from Yuma to Searchlight and Pomona to Prescott, 12
million acres in all. In the desert climate the evidence of the
divisional campsites still remains today.

Here's a link with pictures of the DTC today, and a Sky Trail (similar
to a nature trail) that the Bureau of Land Management is creating for
GA pilots:
http://home.worldnet.att.net/~SkyTra...disclaimer.htm
. The username is: dtc, and the password is: blm. Click 'Pilots
Guide' on the right of the banner to see the sky trail. There is also
information he http://www.pilotgetaways.com/skytours/index.html


Holy Cow, Larry!! I've landed at Chiriaco Summit (L77) a few times and
flown over some of the DTC. I knew it was extensive, but I didn't know
anything about the Sky Trail scheme. I'll have to plan the whole shebang
next time I head for Bullhead City.

I think you'll find the DTC Sky Trail interesting. Camp Ibis (near
Bullhead) is particularly unique, and Rice has both a divisional camp
and aerodrome. That is an ideal venue for a surface based visitor
center, especially if we could open one of the runways. The BLM used
to own Rice, but they traded it for Essex a while back, so that might
now be a candidate site for a visitors' center also.

Some words of caution worth reiterating for those who haven't flown over
the desert. The first two are Density Altitude. Don't expect typical
performance on a warm day. Like the narrative said, it does get bumpy. I've
never experienced moderate turbulence along that route, but sometimes
passengers react poorly to constant light bumps. When that happens, I
usually climb up a couple thousand feet and it is generally much smoother.

On a clear day (which is the rule in the desert) you can get a good
comprehensive view of an entire campsite all at once from an altitude
of ~9,000', but to see the details on the ground (such as the relief
maps and reservoirs) you need to be down low. Be sure to check with
FSS for MTR activity; we wouldn't want anyone to end up splattered all
over the landscape by a military jet like poor Jacques Olivier.*

On the ground, you'll find many mosaic insignias and other interesting
details. I have been successful in getting permission from the
Metropolitan Water District to use Iron Mountain airport to walk the
remains of both camps in that area. Camp Iron Mountain is probably
the best preserved of them all, as its perimeter is armored against
OHVs with chain link fencing.

And drink lots of water, the air out here is very dry all year long. Well,
except near the river where the humidity can stay over the 90% mark at
midnight.
Great information, Larry. What can the GA community do to help push the
Sky Trail scheme along?

Anyone who wishes to propose the creation of a sky trail should
contact the local US Department of Interior Federal Bureau of Land
Management specialist for the location:
http://www.blm.gov/nhp/index.htm .

AOPA has also been receptive to the sky trail idea, and is willing to
provide a letter of support for their creation. The California
Pilot's Association is also supportive of the idea, so I would expect
pilot's associations in other areas would be also.

Draft a proposed sky trail route and supporting documentation; submit
it along with endorsements from other interested parties; work with
the BLM in drafting a grant proposal, and wait....

Seems I remember someone plotting the Chisolm and
Oregon Trails not long ago.

Those sound like worthy projects.

Here's a link to the original sky trail that gave me the idea:
http://www.avweb.com/news/places/182379-1.html

How about starting a new thread on that subject line.

I'll leave that to others who are motivated enough to actually do
something about it. Thanks for your interest.



*
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?e...12X22313&key=1

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:01:43 GMT, "Casey Wilson"
wrote in H7yad.4076$ua2.695@trnddc09::


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:40:14 GMT, "Eric Fletcher S.O.C."
wrote in ::

On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article
,
"Larry Dighera" wrote:

Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
Training Center in the Mojave?


Where might that be and what is their to see there?


The DTC was created in April 1942 shortly after the seven simultaneous
Japanese attacks against Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Hong Kong, Guam,
Philippines, Wake Island, and Midway Island. This is where the first
US troops to fight in WW-II were trained to invade North Africa to
prevent Rommel from reaching the oilfields of Arabia. It covered the
western desert from Yuma to Searchlight and Pomona to Prescott, 12
million acres in all. In the desert climate the evidence of the
divisional campsites still remains today.

Here's a link with pictures of the DTC today, and a Sky Trail (similar
to a nature trail) that the Bureau of Land Management is creating for
GA pilots:
http://home.worldnet.att.net/~SkyTra...disclaimer.htm
. The username is: dtc, and the password is: blm. Click 'Pilots
Guide' on the right of the banner to see the sky trail. There is also
information he http://www.pilotgetaways.com/skytours/index.html


Holy Cow, Larry!! I've landed at Chiriaco Summit (L77) a few times and
flown over some of the DTC. I knew it was extensive, but I didn't know
anything about the Sky Trail scheme. I'll have to plan the whole shebang
next time I head for Bullhead City.

I think you'll find the DTC Sky Trail interesting. Camp Ibis (near
Bullhead) is particularly unique, and Rice has both a divisional camp
and aerodrome. That is an ideal venue for a surface based visitor
center, especially if we could open one of the runways. The BLM used
to own Rice, but they traded it for Essex a while back, so that might
now be a candidate site for a visitors' center also.

Some words of caution worth reiterating for those who haven't flown over
the desert. The first two are Density Altitude. Don't expect typical
performance on a warm day. Like the narrative said, it does get bumpy. I've
never experienced moderate turbulence along that route, but sometimes
passengers react poorly to constant light bumps. When that happens, I
usually climb up a couple thousand feet and it is generally much smoother.

On a clear day (which is the rule in the desert) you can get a good
comprehensive view of an entire campsite all at once from an altitude
of ~9,000', but to see the details on the ground (such as the relief
maps and reservoirs) you need to be down low. Be sure to check with
FSS for MTR activity; we wouldn't want anyone to end up splattered all
over the landscape by a military jet like poor Jacques Olivier.*

On the ground, you'll find many mosaic insignias and other interesting
details. I have been successful in getting permission from the
Metropolitan Water District to use Iron Mountain airport to walk the
remains of both camps in that area. Camp Iron Mountain is probably
the best preserved of them all, as its perimeter is armored against
OHVs with chain link fencing.

And drink lots of water, the air out here is very dry all year long. Well,
except near the river where the humidity can stay over the 90% mark at
midnight.
Great information, Larry. What can the GA community do to help push the
Sky Trail scheme along?

Anyone who wishes to propose the creation of a sky trail should
contact the local US Department of Interior Federal Bureau of Land
Management specialist for the location:
http://www.blm.gov/nhp/index.htm .

AOPA has also been receptive to the sky trail idea, and is willing to
provide a letter of support for their creation. The California
Pilot's Association is also supportive of the idea, so I would expect
pilot's associations in other areas would be also.

Draft a proposed sky trail route and supporting documentation; submit
it along with endorsements from other interested parties; work with
the BLM in drafting a grant proposal, and wait....

Seems I remember someone plotting the Chisolm and
Oregon Trails not long ago.

Those sound like worthy projects.

Here's a link to the original sky trail that gave me the idea:
http://www.avweb.com/news/places/182379-1.html

How about starting a new thread on that subject line.

I'll leave that to others who are motivated enough to actually do
something about it. Thanks for your interest.



*
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?e...12X22313&key=1

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:53:16 GMT, "Casey Wilson"
wrote in gbiad.270$MY.110@trnddc03::

Patton is one of my WWII heros. Yep, I've been out there a few times.
It's one of the places to take relatives who come to visit.
For me, it's easy to close my eyes and hear the rumble, creaking, and
groaning of the tanks churning over the terrain, and hear the gunfire from
machine guns and cannon.

Out west of Blythe near Wiley's Well (IIRC) there are a lot of tank
tracks still evident. I share your ability to envision the DTC in
operation.

Sometimes even hear Patton growling at his junior officers.

Ummm... That wouldn't be Gen. George S. Patton, Jr.; he actually had
a rather high pitched voice. But he did establish a radio station so
he could broadcast throughout the DTC. He knew how to get things
done. Once, when tank parts were slow to arrive through Army
procurement, he sent a sergeant to Sears to get them, and paid for it
out of his own pocket. Patton was also a pilot who flew his own
Stenson 'flying jeep' to scout the land for the DTC.

But , what the heck..., I've got an active imagination..., even if
the ghosts are real.

Casey


What's really eerie is walking the grounds of the campsites out in the
lonely desert and seeing the beer bottle caps still on the ground, and
imagining how the recruits must have enjoyed a 'cold one' after
marching from Yuma to Blythe in an evening. I spoke to one of the
owners of the Budwiser distributorship in Palm Springs about his
memories of the DTC (he was just a child at that time). He indicated
that that was how his father got started in the beer business; he
trucked beer out to the campsites during the war. ...