Student night solo?

(Michael) wrote in message . com...
Dave S wrote
My answer as a non-CFI is.. I would expect the number of CFI's who
actually endorse a student for night solo to be VERY low.. simply as a
result of the environment in which we instruct and train.

My answer as a CFI is - if not now, when? The student will have night
privileges when he passes the checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel
comfortable having him fly solo at night on your ticket, how can you
send him to the checkride?

I don't feel comfortable signing my students off for cross countries
from San Francisco to New York either but their private priv will
allow it. I expect students will ask for extra training in certain
areas as they grown in their private. Most don't do any night flying
for the first year or so after their private so anything given would
be mostly lost anyway.

-Robert, CFI

"Peter MacPherson" wrote in message
news:9kQad.459163$8_6.292132@attbi_s04...
I'm a CFI and was curious how many CFI's sign their students off for
flying solo at night. I personally don't feel comfortable doing it.

Thanks,
Pete



When I was a student after miss judging winds aloft and winds coming down
the gorge and squeaking in with 15 min before actual night. I was thinking
my instructor knew it was going to happen becuse he approved the solo X-C.
Maybe I should not stopped and ate at the cafe at my destination but I was
hungry! I landed parked the airplane and debriefed. He said 1 more night
flight under the hood and we will make it a X-C then 8 unassisted stop and
goes and he would sign me off for night solo & checkride and make my
appointment for checkride. The next night after the flight, I was informed
that airplanes would be gone the next day and recived no sign off's as there
were no airplanes to fly. At the debrief the instructors logic was If he
thought I was ready to take the checkride and exercise the privileges of
private pilot after the check ride he wanted himself to be comfortable with
me flying at night and have some night time solo practice. It made since to
me.

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
Dave S wrote
My answer as a non-CFI is.. I would expect the number of CFI's who
actually endorse a student for night solo to be VERY low.. simply as a
result of the environment in which we instruct and train.

My answer as a CFI is - if not now, when? The student will have night
privileges when he passes the checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel
comfortable having him fly solo at night on your ticket, how can you
send him to the checkride?

My policy is that the student gets a night solo endorsement when he
completes his night and instrument training. If I don't feel like he
can fly at night and maintain an adequate level of safety and
proficiency, then we do more than the mandated 3 hour minimum (this
has happened). If he doesn't like it, he can find another instructor
(this has not).

Michael

Michael, I like your attitude you must be a excellent instructor you kind of
sound like my old instructor to bad he went to the airline's he was a great
instructor. The Flight school he used to work at was not so good though they
are crooks

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
(Michael) wrote in message
. com...
Dave S wrote
My answer as a non-CFI is.. I would expect the number of CFI's who
actually endorse a student for night solo to be VERY low.. simply as a
result of the environment in which we instruct and train.

My answer as a CFI is - if not now, when? The student will have night
privileges when he passes the checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel
comfortable having him fly solo at night on your ticket, how can you
send him to the checkride?

I don't feel comfortable signing my students off for cross countries
from San Francisco to New York either but their private priv will
allow it. I expect students will ask for extra training in certain
areas as they grown in their private. Most don't do any night flying
for the first year or so after their private so anything given would
be mostly lost anyway.

-Robert, CFI

Robert, what is the speed and range of the airplane your training in? I
would love to have enough range to make it from San Francisco to New York in
1 day during daylight hours only!

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Robert, what is the speed and range of the airplane your training in? I
would love to have enough range to make it from San Francisco to New York
in
1 day during daylight hours only!

He never said anything about making it from SF to NY "in 1 day during
daylight hours only". Why in the world do you think he did?

Commented below look down!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Duniho"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 4:40 PM
Subject: Student night solo?

The student will have passenger carrying privileges when he passes the
checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel comfortable having him fly with
passengers on your ticket, how can you send him to the checkride?

As I understand it the DE on the checkride is the students first passanger
evaluating the student.


Seriously...the above analogy is only a little facetious. The truth is
that, once your student has passed his checkride, he will be legal to do a
whole slew of things never covered in primary training.

Only thing I can think of is carring passangers and lower weather min for
some! As a student I was doing solo SVFR flights in the pattern. If they are
renting they may not be able to do a few things like soft field unless
approved by the FBO or Club.

The only
alternative to that situation is to make the primary training take orders
of
magnitude longer than it does now.

I have not meet one person that has done the primary training in the min
time usually 20 to 40 hours more then required.


Some things can be explored by the pilot on his own, gradually expanding
his
envelope of flight skills, others really will require additional training
time with a qualified instructor before the student ought to try them.

Humm?????? Like with all things of skill, But they should be at a skill
level that meets or exceeds PTS prior to check ride.

But
in all cases, they are examples of things that the student is not going to
be approved to do by his instructor before the checkride, nor should he
be,
even though the FAA will consider him legal to attempt after the
checkride.

I was allowed to do every thing in the PTS as a student on solo flights as
long as I demonstrated profiecenty.


I think it's great that you are able to train your students to solo
proficiency in night flight during the course of the student's training
(you
don't say how often you are able to do this in the minimum three hours),
but
the argument "he'll be able to do it after the checkride, so why not
before?" is just plain silly.

So if you know a student cannot fly well or be safe at night you would sign
him off for a check ride knowing that he would be unsafe at night? that is
just plain silly and rather reckless. The point of it all is building
proficiency not racing the clock to see how few of hours you can do it in
required 3 hours but if it take 10 or 12 or even 20 hours of night to be
safe & proficient then so be it.

It carries no logical weight whatsoever.

Just because they are not examined except by the instructor on night flying
and night proficiency doesn't mean you can skimp on that part of the flight
training.


Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Robert, what is the speed and range of the airplane your training in? I
would love to have enough range to make it from San Francisco to New
York
in
1 day during daylight hours only!

He never said anything about making it from SF to NY "in 1 day during
daylight hours only". Why in the world do you think he did?




Well, as I was told by my CFI that the Cross Country Solo endorsment is
valid for the date of the endorsment only. But I could be wrong as I am not
a CFI.

On 10/13/2004 14:25, NW_PILOT wrote:

Commented below look down!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Duniho"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 4:40 PM
Subject: Student night solo?

The student will have passenger carrying privileges when he passes the
checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel comfortable having him fly with
passengers on your ticket, how can you send him to the checkride?

As I understand it the DE on the checkride is the students first passanger
evaluating the student.

I don't think that's true. According to the FARs, you cannot carry
passengers until you have the certificate. Therefore, the examiner
is still the instructor and the student is still logging dual
instruction time.

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 10/13/2004 14:25, NW_PILOT wrote:

Commented below look down!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Duniho"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 4:40 PM
Subject: Student night solo?

The student will have passenger carrying privileges when he passes the
checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel comfortable having him fly
with
passengers on your ticket, how can you send him to the checkride?

As I understand it the DE on the checkride is the students first
passanger
evaluating the student.

I don't think that's true. According to the FARs, you cannot carry
passengers until you have the certificate. Therefore, the examiner
is still the instructor and the student is still logging dual
instruction time.


That's werid the examiner on my check ride told me to log PIC only not Dual
as he was just along for the ride.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:07:26 -0700, Mark Hansen
wrote:

On 10/13/2004 14:25, NW_PILOT wrote:

Commented below look down!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Duniho"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 4:40 PM
Subject: Student night solo?

The student will have passenger carrying privileges when he passes the
checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel comfortable having him fly with
passengers on your ticket, how can you send him to the checkride?

As I understand it the DE on the checkride is the students first passanger
evaluating the student.

I don't think that's true. According to the FARs, you cannot carry
passengers until you have the certificate. Therefore, the examiner
is still the instructor and the student is still logging dual
instruction time.

The examiner is a special case. They endorse the log as proficiency
passed and give you a slip, but it's PIC time for the examinee and no
dual received gets logged.