Who has started implementing the TSA rule?

David Brooks wrote:
OK, flight instructors, have you been doing your patriotic
duty since
midday Wednesday? Remember, under the thoroughly amended
rule:

1) If a non-citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to
learn to
fly,

What is if the non-citizen have a foreign
glider licence and wan't to make PPL-A
in the staates?

Chris wrote:
Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a
small number
of flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to
get a M1
visa. Without this form and the visa, students will not
get past
immigration.

As fare I know for part time study til
18 hours/week besides holidays no
visa is needed.

In article , David Brooks wrote:
But the TSA has affirmed that their rule applies to resident aliens also. We
form 13% of the pilot population, and we not only got past immigration, we

Also, I think the cost of doing the full TSA thing borne by the student
is in the region of $450 (there's more than one fee-bearing process you
have to go through).

Fortunately, you can still get a BFR or checkout without the TSA
requirements (the TSA has since clarified the requirements and
specifically excluded BFRs and other recurrent instruction for
already-rated pilots) - otherwise all my future flying vacations would
have been in Canada, not the US.

In fact, for getting new ratings, Canada's a better bet. It's probably
cheaper to pay for a CFI in a border town to come over with the N-reg
plane than pay all the TSA fees. This is why the TSA's assinine new
regulations won't make a speck of difference - there are other countries
without these assinine rules.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

"Chris" writes:
Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a small number of
flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to get a M1 visa.
Without this form and the visa, students will not get past immigration.

Therefore there should not be many CFIs with non resident alien students
unless they are in a M1 approved flight school. These schools are used to
handling the necessary paperwork and this only represents a bit more.

What about students who are here in the US to go to college? I am a
F1 student in Pittsburgh, going to grad school full time. Is it no
longer possible for me to learn to fly in my free time? Or do I need
to get special permission from the government?

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:Hfifd.44009$bk1.22144@fed1read05...
"David Brooks" wrote in message
...

2) If a citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly, you
have
to determine and continue to determine they are a citizen, and make a
specifically worded entry in their logbook (which they don't have yet)
referring to 49 CFR 1552.3(h). Everyone knows the wording, right?

Dave.. the specific wording required for the log book was posted on 20
October.
Make the entry and sell them the $5 logbook as part of the intro package.

I think you need to get current?

:-)

I was referring to the logbook they don't have yet, of course.

-- David Brooks
Believe!!!!!

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:Hfifd.44009$bk1.22144@fed1read05...
Dave.. the specific wording required for the log book was posted on 20
October.
Make the entry and sell them the $5 logbook as part of the intro package.

Are you getting tired of my postings yet? Talk to me about specific
wording...

"TSA interprets the definition of 'flight training' to include only that
training that a candidate could use toward a new airman's certificate or
rating." Note the word "could".

I get my Private in a 172. I decide to fill my logbook with the add-on
endorsements. I go and get tailwheel training and the instructor signs me
off. I go and get high-performance training and the instructor signs me off.
I walk towards a Cardinal... and the TSA jumps up in front. Why?

Because the complex training *could* be used towards my theoretical future
Commercial certificate, that's why. (note 61.129 doesn't say the training
has to be in the context of being enrolled in a commercial pilot course).

-- David Brooks
Believe!!!!!

"Christopher Brian Colohan" wrote in message
.. .
"Chris" writes:

What about students who are here in the US to go to college? I am a
F1 student in Pittsburgh, going to grad school full time. Is it no
longer possible for me to learn to fly in my free time?

Yes, it is possible.

Or do I need
to get special permission from the government?

Yes, you do. Postpone that initial hot-air ballon lesson and start gathering
old passports.

-- David Brooks
Believe!!!!!

"Ralf Gropp" wrote in message
...
Chris wrote:
Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a
small number
of flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to
get a M1
visa. Without this form and the visa, students will not
get past
immigration.

As fare I know for part time study til
18 hours/week besides holidays no
visa is needed.

No there is no limit on hours I had to get a visa for 5 hours of training.
He is an except from an email from the US embassy in London.

If you are to receive flight training in the U.S. you will require an F-1,
M-1 or J-1 visa. You should contact the flight school which will provide
you with either an I-20F or M, or a DS-2019 which is required to apply for
the visa.

If you have a private pilots license and you merely wish to build up flight
hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be eligible to travel
visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if otherwise qualified, since the
introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation Security
Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.
When applying for the B-2 visa and entry into the U.S. you will be required
to furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of aircraft you
will be flying.

Detailed information on visa application procedures and advice on how to
schedule an interview at the Embassy is available from our website at
www.usembassy.org.uk

If your flight school cannot issue you with the appropriate form then we
regret that you cannot apply for the necessary visa.

Thank you for your email correspondence.

Consular Information Unit
U.S. Embassy London
CONS/CIU/GMS

What's this about M1s?

I am a Canadian Citizen, non-resident Alien down here on TN status. I have
been training since May, and don't need any special visas, etc.
Are you referring to people who want to come to the US strictly to train?
Or non-resident aliens who are already in the country for another reason?


"Chris" wrote in message
...

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
OK, flight instructors, have you been doing your patriotic duty since
midday
Wednesday? Remember, under the thoroughly amended rule:

1) If a non-citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly,
you
tell them that they have to submit to TSA: name, including aliases,
their
brand new TSA ID number, a copy of their passport and visa, all the
information needed to get the visa and passport and previous visas and
passports, their country of birth, all current and past countries of
citizenship, their date of birth, dates and location of training, type
of
training, fingerprints, address, phone number, addresses for the past 5
years, gender, a $130 fee, and any other information required by TSA.
Then
you have to notify TSA about their request and submit a photograph.
Then,
and only then, can you let them in your hot air balloon.

2) If a citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly, you
have
to determine and continue to determine they are a citizen, and make a
specifically worded entry in their logbook (which they don't have yet)
referring to 49 CFR 1552.3(h). Everyone knows the wording, right?

Any CFIs want to recount how they have managed their newest students? I
don't expect to hear from anyone who has not done the above - after all,
you'd be admitting to breaking the law.

Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a small number of
flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to get a M1 visa.
Without this form and the visa, students will not get past immigration.

Therefore there should not be many CFIs with non resident alien students
unless they are in a M1 approved flight school. These schools are used to
handling the necessary paperwork and this only represents a bit more.

Unlikely to be a problem therefore for the independent freelance
instructor
without M1 approval as having non resident alien students is a breech of
regulations by both the instructor and the student who would get summarily
deported and possibly banned from future entry to the US.

What I would like to see is that the TSA requirements replace the visa
requirements and therefore provide more instructors with legal instruction
opportunities for non resident aliens. The added paperwork is surely worth
having a better business opportunity. After all I know of many potential
students who would like to train anywhere but in the Florida pilot
factories; but can you find an M1 approved school outside Florida and
Lower
California....... very difficult. I for one would love to do some
mountain
flying training up in Oregon but it is impossible legally as a non
resident
alien. (unless someone knows of an M1 approved school) However, I can rent
a
plane in Oregon.

Just some thoughts to see how there could be something good to come of
this.

"David Brooks" wrote in
:

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
OK, flight instructors, have you been doing your patriotic duty
since midday
Wednesday? Remember, under the thoroughly amended rule:

snip

Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a small number
of flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to get a M1
visa. Without this form and the visa, students will not get past
immigration.

Therefore there should not be many CFIs with non resident alien
students unless they are in a M1 approved flight school. These
schools are used to handling the necessary paperwork and this only
represents a bit more.

No doubt, if you restrict your analysis to nonresidents.

But the TSA has affirmed that their rule applies to resident aliens
also. We form 13% of the pilot population, and we not only got past
immigration, we have jobs and homes here. That means we form 13% of
the people walking on the door of every flight school and independent
instructor in the country (unless you want to reduce that number by
those who have foreign certificates; I haven't even thought whether
their conversion to a US certificate would be covered by the rule).

-- David Brooks
Believe!!!!!





How does a permanent resident student get an I-20?? He already lives and
works in this country.




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