Using other freqs to communicate between planes or ground?

It is not "your" frequency. Every aviation frequency is issued on a shared
basis. If the aircraft involved are authorized on that frequency for the
purpose for which they are using it, then you are not entitled to shoo them off
the frequency.

If, however, they are using a frequency FOR WHICH YOU HAVE A CURRENT AND VALID
FCC LICENSE and they are using it for a purpose not covered under that
particular part, then you have the right to ask them to take their conversation
to a legal channel.

Tell you what. The FCC maintains a database of ALL valid licenses. Why don't
you just post here the name of the person or business that you think has a
license for that frequency and I'll go look it up and report back here?

Jim



unicate
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-As someone who monitors that FBO frequency in the office, we do
-occasionally hear other pilots using "our" frequency
Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

unicate wrote:
"Jay Beckman" wrote:


Where I rent/train, the two closest uncontrolled fields use 122.8 and 122.7
so the FBO squeezes 122.775 in between for calling inbound when returning
from the practice area or from cross countrys.

The FBO freq is also handy if you need something from the office when you
are out on the ramp preflighting and you don't want to leave the plane
un-attended.


As someone who monitors that FBO frequency in the office, we do
occasionally hear other pilots using "our" frequency to converse with
each other. It's intrusive to us because our frequency is supposed to be
for communication between our FBO and OUR pilots (students, renters,
etc.) to make our operations smoother; the unwitting pilots find it
annoying when we tell them they're on our FBO frequency, as if WE are
interrupting THEIR conversation! I don't know if they're in violation of
any regs by using our frequency to communicate, but my guess is that it
doesn't happen frequently enough to pursue it.

Given the small amount/number of frequencies, I doubt that you have
exclusive use of YOUR frequency. There should be air to air frequencies
and Multicom (122.9) for air to ground that should be used for such
purposes that the "unwitting pilots" are using them for, but that being
said I doubt that any FBO has standing to claim a frequency for
exclusive use.

Dave

What makes a handheld illegal? Public safety folks get licensed for and
use handhelds all the time. Its licensed as either a mobile or a
portable (its been a LONG time since I've been around em)..

Dave

Peter Duniho wrote:

"gerrcoin" wrote in message
...

[...] Stick to assigned freqs or, as peter has mentioned, 123.45 is
considered to be a common chat channel.


However, as I also mentioned, it's not an approved channel. It's reserved
for ground test stations.

If you're going to chat on the radio in the air to other stations in the
air, you should do so on 122.75, which is the frequency specifically set
aside for air-to-air communication.

I would also use 122.75 for student-to-instructor communications, when the
instructor is on the ground with a hand-held for example, even though that's
patently illegal (it's not an air-to-ground frequency, and the handheld is
not a legal station for the purpose of transmitting).

Pete

Peter...

Sorry, you pushed a hot button. 123.4, 123.45, and a few others are flight test
frequencies (47CFR89 sub J) and are ONLY available to aircraft manufacturers and
aviation equipment manufacturers. This is the ONLY license where the person
applying for the license must indicate and swear to the fact that they are a
legitimate manufacturer. Specifically excluded by supplemental interpretation
are those constructing an aircraft for personal reasons or other "homebuilder"
reasons. Van's Aircraft could easily qualify for the licenses (and has). An
individual building an RV-6 could not.

When we need to do a test, we use one, two, or more of these for data
transmission, coordination between the test facility and the aircraft being
tested, and all that good stuff. We haven't had a need for the license for this
last year, and let it lapse. When we need it again, we'll apply and pay the fee
and get it.

It goes further than that. Before we use any of these test frequencies, we are
required to notify all other test facilities for a 100 mile radius of our
proposed hours of operation and types of transmissions they might expect to
hear. If there is a conflict between users, they are required to work it out
themselves before EITHER of them can use the frequency.

Having said that, you might want to check with the pilot of the Coors Silver
Bullet. When we were doing some antenna tests a few years ago, he decided to
use one of our assigned test frequencies as his "airshow announcement"
frequency. We politely asked him to move to his assigned frequency and he
politely told us to go !^c# ourselves. Which, since we were recording the data
on tape anyway, somehow found its way to the FCC Livermore Monitoring Station.
We weren't told what the fine was, but were advised that it was "substantial",
whatever that means.

Understand, we've got equipment, personnel, aircraft, and other expenses during
one of these tests, and when some @$$#)!& comes on to chatter it ruins an hour
of test data, which is an expense to us. A rather large expense, which, of
course, we pass on to you in the form of higher prices for our products. We
aren't about to play nice guys when this is a well known breach of the rules.

We also had a nice chat with the chief pilot of a local commuter airline who had
one of his junior pilots chatting with his buddies at FL250. That hammers the
frequency for an hour in any direction. Just a friendly chat, mind you, and the
problem disappeared.

Most of the problems stem from flight instructors who either don't know or don't
care who they screw up and teach their students the same. I do hope that those
of you who advocate the use of these frequencies are willing to pay the
consequences.

Jim



"Peter Duniho"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:



-
-Define "ok". Many pilots use 123.45 as a "junk" frequency for the purposes
-you mention, but it's not a permitted frequency. It's unlikely you'll
-interfere with anyone else using that frequency, and it's unlikely you'll
-ever get caught. But don't you think it would be better to stick to an
-approved frequency?



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

The hell it is. See previous dissertation.

Jim


gerrcoin
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

Stick to assigned freqs or, as peter
-has mentioned, 123.45 is considered to be a common chat channel.


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

"Peter Duniho"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-
-However, as I also mentioned, it's not an approved channel. It's reserved
-for ground test stations.

Nope. Subpart J is entitled FLIGHT Test stations.


-
-If you're going to chat on the radio in the air to other stations in the
-air, you should do so on 122.75, which is the frequency specifically set
-aside for air-to-air communication.
-
-I would also use 122.75 for student-to-instructor communications, when the
-instructor is on the ground with a hand-held for example, even though that's
-patently illegal (it's not an air-to-ground frequency, and the handheld is
-not a legal station for the purpose of transmitting).

A SINGLE instructor with a SINGLE student has been found to qualify for Subpart
K Flight School frequencies 123.3 and 123.5. The handheld is a perfectly legal
station for use in this service, but as I've pointed out several times, the
individual flight instructor (or their flight school) must apply for the license
and pay the fee.

The point of all this rambling is that there is a frequency available for almost
any use and almost any condition, but unless the stations at both end of the
communications link are authorized AND LICENSED on these frequencies, then the
communications FROM BOTH ENDS are illegal.

Jim



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

The answer is yes. You can use any other frequency that you are authorized
to use, such as CB, Ham (If you are licensed), or the family radio band
(those little handhelds at walmart).


"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:5Oyfd.18870$SW3.479@fed1read01...

"Gary G" wrote in message
...
I've wondered if it is legal to utilize an "unused" frequency to
communicate between planes or
to someone on the ground for non-critical communication?
I don't know what for, but let's say you want to talk to your friend or
CFI on the ground who
might give "additional instructions" on things.
Or, another pilot close by wants to exchange some restaurant info or
something.
Or maybe a flying club wants to communicate or something.

Is that legal?
Is it ok?
(Let's assume your monitoring other freqs that you need to)

Hi Gary,

Where I rent/train, the two closest uncontrolled fields use 122.8 and
122.7 so the FBO squeezes 122.775 in between for calling inbound when
returning from the practice area or from cross countrys.

The practice area (122.85) is close enought that you could, I suppose (if
you had a dilemma...), hail the FBO to ask for help.

The FBO freq is also handy if you need something from the office when you
are out on the ramp preflighting and you don't want to leave the plane
un-attended.

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ
PP-ASEL
Still nowhere to go but up!

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
...

The hell it is. See previous dissertation.


Actually, 123.45 IS considered by many to be a common chat channel. It is
NOT a common chat channel, of course, but that doesn't change the fact that
many believe it is.

"Rip" wrote in message
om...
The AIM and FCC list 122.750 MHz and 122.850 MHz for air to air (and
private airports not open to the public).

Can I use these freqs for communication in formation flights?

Dave S wrote:

Given the small amount/number of frequencies, I doubt that you have
exclusive use of YOUR frequency.

I put the word "our" when mentioning the frequency in quotation marks
because I *don't* know if it is registered to our FBO with the FCC ...
it is on all our documentation as our "base station" frequency, and it
is also listed in the Flight Guide (which I realize doesn't necessarily
mean anything).

There should be air to air frequencies
and Multicom (122.9) for air to ground that should be used for such
purposes that the "unwitting pilots" are using them for, but that being
said I doubt that any FBO has standing to claim a frequency for
exclusive use.

Maybe my term "unwitting pilots" was out of line...I expect a pilot from
out of the area may not know it's used for our FBO without having
specifically looked at our info. And no, we don't try to "shoo them off"
when we hear them; however, we do tell them that they are chatting on
our aircraft-to-FBO frequency. I've yet to hear any conversation on that
frequency *between aircraft not from our FBO* that consists of anything
other than "hey Bill, what time did your wife say you had to be back
today?" or "I'm over Dead Tree Road, where are you?" ... and when we
tell them they're on an FBO frequency, they pretty much tell us to
"f@#$-off" too, just as another poster said.