Landing a Mooney

Don't forget that, as with any airplane, stall speed and thus approach speed
vary with weight. If 70 knots works well on short final at max gross weight,

then to get the same flare and float characteristics, you must be slower at
lighter weights. If the plane is 20% below max gross, then approach speed
should be 10% less.

A couple of other things that might be a bit more 'advanced', or at least are
not in the POH but are worth considering.

When you're deep in the flare, flip your flaps to up. Stall speed goes up, the
airplane will stay down when it touches down.

If there's a serious cross wind and the runway is wide -- say 100 feet or so --
you can take 4 or so degrees off the crosswind component by planing your touch
down near the downwind side of the runway, aiming towards the upwide side. If
you cross say 50 feet of runway -- 25 feet from the downwind edge to within 25
feet of the upwind edge in say 750 feet you'll have changed the effective
runway heading about 4 degrees. It's often enough to give you a little more
rudder authority (in my M20J at least I run out of rudder in strong cross winds
-- I like to touch down pretty slowly).

Until you get your visual sight picture down you might try reducing power to
idle at about 50' and just flying it onto the runway with a controlled
smooth descent, making sure you don't land nosegear first. Then when you
have that down you could use the "normal" procedure of holding it just off
the runway until it plays out and lands. With a low wing you have a little
more ground effect near touchdown.

--

Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
-

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

Hard to resist this thread. I was on the Mooney listserver for a couple of
years and there is an 'unlimited' number of landing notes for you. Every
model, vintage, condition. If you aren't on it, you should be. Don't have
the details though.

The various models apparently have different speeds, challenges, and
techniques. I flew a '61 model 21 with the Johnson bar. I fell in love
with landing it, and I'm a high wing guy too. Airspeed as always was the
key.

The thing I liked the most though, was doing short field landings at 65mph
as I remember. At a very specific airspeed (68 I think at our weight), you
apparently fell out of laminar flow mode and the descent angle would
significantly steepen. If you held 65 and pulled the power 2 wingspans up,
it was automatic spot landing. Neat. I think someone else mentioned that
effect (pitch up and slow 5 knots and the descent rate goes up).

Apparently that is a lot trickier on the later heavier models. Have fun!

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

In article ,
wrote:
With the speed of the Comanche (which I've heard is very
similar to the Mooney save for the strut/puck gear differences), all the
flaps are
normally required. It seemed to be a matter of holding the (apparent nose-low)
attitute *by sight* before flaring to let the speed bleed off.

The transition from floating to landing can be abrupt. If you're a few
feet in the air when that happens you're going to plonk down (properly
inflated struts are important for this maneuver!).

If you round out to about 1' up you will have time to sense that final
sink and flare. You'll have to pull more than you think, otherwise
you'll just fall. This was tricky for me to get used to because if you
balloon it's followed abruptly by the aforementioned plonk. If it works
your touchdown attitude will be very nose-high. If you start to balloon
add power immediately. I found that my fly-just-above-the- runway
reflexes from the C172 led to a lot of ballooning early on.

What I prefer to do now is round out very low and fly as close to the
runway as possible so that the final sink/plonk is more gentle. This
is more like my C172 technique, but the results are much different from
a C172. A 172 will go slower and slower and more nose high until you
land. The Comanche will maintain essentially the same attitude until
you settle onto the runway.

Once you're down, either don't brake (you'll just skid) or raise the
flaps first. A lot of people are squeamish about the idea of touching
the flaps on the runway. If you want to stop in the shortest possible
distance you have no choice, IMO.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

In article ,
Jon Kraus wrote:


We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.




Remember to KEEP THAT NOSE OFF! Too many Mooney drivers land too fast,
touch nosewheel first and wheelbarrow down the runway.

Proper flare technique is critical on a Mooney.

How about if you are "in" a Mooney? :-)


Matt

"Ben Jackson" wrote


The transition from floating to landing can be abrupt. If you're a few
feet in the air when that happens you're going to plonk down (properly
inflated struts are important for this maneuver!).

Ben Jackson

What Mooney has inflatable struts? All I have seen have rubber donuts.
Damn, those are hard to chew, and digest, too.
--
Jim in NC


---
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I generally take 5 knots off everything in my Mooney when I'm light.


"Barry" wrote in message ...
Don't forget that, as with any airplane, stall speed and thus approach
speed
vary with weight. If 70 knots works well on short final at max gross
weight,
then to get the same flare and float characteristics, you must be slower
at
lighter weights. If the plane is 20% below max gross, then approach speed
should be 10% less.

Excellent idea but I'm not sure if I'm strong enough to do that. I've never
noticed the Mooney tending to tip (unlike a 172). You must be a large muscle
type of guy. You aren't by chance the governor of California are you?

BTW: I find that for tailwheel training its really good to have the student
sit in the plane while we lift the tail. Students tend to think that they
will hit the prop on a wheel landing (some times you can though). They don't
realize that most tailwheels will "tuck" the prop under the plane before it
hits the ground. You generally have to tip MUCH more than students think to
hit the prop in the tailwheel.

-Robert

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 122...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote

Really take the time to get used to
the picture down the runway with the plane on the ground.

Robert, I go one step further, I get out and hold the tail
down in order that the student can see (and hopefully retain)
the landing attitude.

Bob Moore

I also do my short field landings like that when I'm in Mexico with my
Mooney. As you slow the Mooney down below around 70 knots the rate of decent
goes up a lot. You can drag it in on the prop and drop it one a spot easily.
If you run the trim all the way back you can also raise the nose up on take
off and accelerate on the mains. Tricky though, check out a CFI first.

BTW: If you are flying an older Mooney just substitute knots for mph. So the
older Mooneys approach at 75-80mpg, the newer one use 75-80 knots. Same
thing with over the fence speed (should be 5 mph less than your approach
speed). Kinda neat that it works out that way.

-Robert

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
om...
Hard to resist this thread. I was on the Mooney listserver for a couple
of
years and there is an 'unlimited' number of landing notes for you. Every
model, vintage, condition. If you aren't on it, you should be. Don't
have
the details though.

The various models apparently have different speeds, challenges, and
techniques. I flew a '61 model 21 with the Johnson bar. I fell in love
with landing it, and I'm a high wing guy too. Airspeed as always was the
key.

The thing I liked the most though, was doing short field landings at
65mph
as I remember. At a very specific airspeed (68 I think at our weight), you
apparently fell out of laminar flow mode and the descent angle would
significantly steepen. If you held 65 and pulled the power 2 wingspans
up,
it was automatic spot landing. Neat. I think someone else mentioned that
effect (pitch up and slow 5 knots and the descent rate goes up).

Apparently that is a lot trickier on the later heavier models. Have fun!

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

Years ago I did allot of flying in a M20C, they are fast and tend to float.
If I remember the key is to be right on the speed at flare or expect it to
balloon and float. It will get better with practice.

Ron Gardner

Jon Kraus wrote:

We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ