A newbie doubt, if it's ok...

I was going to argue this point with you, but realized that when I did
my landings and takeoffs from the surface of a frozen lake it wasn't a
"runway".

It was icy however. G

Thats true, planes with skis or whatever they call them are frequently used
in frozen remote places like antarctica and such.

"C Kingsbury" wrote

These things do happen, though mostly to small planes and not generally
fatal so they're not big news items.

Why doesn't this happen with airliners? I'll hazard the following guesses:

1. Thrust reversers provide braking power even if the tires have no grip
at
all
2. Landings are made in a straight line on a flat runway. It's curves and
hills that cause trouble on icy roads.
3. Weight-to-tire-area ratio: I'm guessing here, but it seems to me that
airliners put a lot of weight on a relatively small amount of tire area
compared to cars. This would improve traction.
4. Operator skill: Trained pilots vs. idiot/unskilled drivers

In my (limited) experience, you're lucky if the runway is cleared of
snow/ice better than the highways, especially during/after a large storm.

-cwk.

Add more factors.

Airplanes have aerodynamic surfaces that help maintain directional control,
especially at high speeds, where loss of control from lack of traction is
usually a problem for cars.

Airplane wheels are not powered, to make them lose traction during
acceleration. Also, brakes are not used much for stopping small planes on
long runways. If there is slush on a runway, it has the effect of slowing a
small plane, all by itself, with using even less brakes.
--
Jim in NC


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"Greg Butler" wrote in message
.. .

I was going to argue this point with you, but realized that when I did
my landings and takeoffs from the surface of a frozen lake it wasn't a
"runway".

It was icy however. G

Thats true, planes with skis or whatever they call them are frequently
used
in frozen remote places like antarctica and such.

And in Wisconson! ;-)
--
Jim in NC


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And in Wisconson! ;-)
--
Jim in NC

Well I used to live in Wisconsin, never saw that, but makes sense!

I don't know what you consider "major" but my home field (BED, Hanscom
Field) gets a ton of bizjet traffic and not-infrequent visits from chartered
737s and military transports.

And they definitely do not clear the runway "meticulously." After one
nor'easter a couple years ago I remember some touch-and-goes on a runway
with at least 1-1/2" of moderately-packed snow/slush that reminded me of
toboggan rides on cafeteria trays from high school. Of course the tires on a
big ship would bite down through that pretty easily.

"Greg Butler" wrote in message
. ..

why is it that we don't ever hear of aircraft skidding and going
off-track while taxiing or even during takeoff/landing? Is the lack of
such incidents only because of the meticulousness of ice clearance by
airport authorities?

It is because no pilot would dare take off or land on an icy runway, and
yes
they are meticulously cleared at major airports.

"Greg Butler" wrote in message
. ..

why is it that we don't ever hear of aircraft skidding and going
off-track while taxiing or even during takeoff/landing? Is the lack of
such incidents only because of the meticulousness of ice clearance by
airport authorities?

It is because no pilot would dare take off or land on an icy runway, and
yes
they are meticulously cleared at major airports.

A friend just sent me a CD with lots of pictures of him taking off and
landing his 182 on a frozen lake.

I'd just like to throw in one more factor. Most airports shutdown when the
runways are to bad to be used. Roads on the other hand don't shut down until
a car can get stuck. Thus a car can drive on a sheet of ice and people
thinks it okay because no one told them not to do it. Because of that,
people don't think to use caution
"Ramapriya" wrote in message
om...
Hi there,

Is a non-aviator airing a doubt ok with you folks?

I know cars and trucks tend to skid even at low speeds in sleet and on
ice, with braking often proving ineffectual. This leaves me wondering
why is it that we don't ever hear of aircraft skidding and going
off-track while taxiing or even during takeoff/landing? Is the lack of
such incidents only because of the meticulousness of ice clearance by
airport authorities?

Look forward to a comment on this from you experienced folks

Cheers,

Ramapriya





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It is because no pilot would dare take off or land on an icy runway, and
yes
they are meticulously cleared at major airports.

Spoken from someone who's obviously never flown in Alaska in the winter.

PJ

============================================
Here's to the duck who swam a lake and never lost a feather,
May sometime another year, we all be back together.
JJW
============================================

PJ Hunt wrote:

It is because no pilot would dare take off or land on an icy runway, and

yes

they are meticulously cleared at major airports.

There's an "airport" somewhere in the Northeast that is simply a runway
plowed on a lake. Ops on a snow covered runway are fun.

You miss quoted me.. I did not write that. (Notice the preceding the
text.)

What I wrote was the response that whoever did write it obviously has not
flown in Alaska in the winter time. And I agree with you, frozen lakes are
fun, there's tons of them up here, and tons of snow covered runways too. And
a couple of plowed ones now and then.

PJ

============================================
Here's to the duck who swam a lake and never lost a feather,
May sometime another year, we all be back together.
JJW
============================================


"Newps" wrote in message
...


PJ Hunt wrote:

It is because no pilot would dare take off or land on an icy runway, and

yes

they are meticulously cleared at major airports.

There's an "airport" somewhere in the Northeast that is simply a runway
plowed on a lake. Ops on a snow covered runway are fun.