Six-Place Composite?

Who do you all think will be the first to come out with a new certified
single-engine, six-place composite (non-aluminium) airframe? Given Cirrus'
success, all the manufacturers are undoubtedly thinking about this. Any bets
on the Beechcraft-Cessna-Piper trio before Cirrus and Diamond?

Marco,

Who do you all think will be the first to come out with a new certified
single-engine, six-place composite (non-aluminium) airframe? [...]

Does the Epic LT from www.epicaircraft.com qualify?

Best regards

Kai Glaesner

Marco,

Diamond D-Jet? You said single-engine g, but I think it only has five seats. The Grob
Ranger is in that league, too, albeit with a turboprop. And then there's the Extra 400 - or
is there?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Marco Leon (at) wrote:
Who do you all think will be the first to come out with a new
certified
single-engine, six-place composite (non-aluminium) airframe? Given
Cirrus'
success, all the manufacturers are undoubtedly thinking about this.
Any bets
on the Beechcraft-Cessna-Piper trio before Cirrus and Diamond?

At a wild guess I'd say Extra, since they already have one

http://www.extraaircraft.com/ea400.asp
http://www.anft.net/f-14/extra400.htm

--
Allen

I guess I was thinking about piston single engine composites. Will the
210,Saratoga and Bonanza be the last six-place pistons out there? It seems
to be a great way for one of these guys to break into the composite market
if they have the stomach for the cost and risk. Otherwise, what's their next
move?

Marco Leon

wrote in message
ups.com...

Marco Leon (at) wrote:
Who do you all think will be the first to come out with a new
certified
single-engine, six-place composite (non-aluminium) airframe? Given
Cirrus'
success, all the manufacturers are undoubtedly thinking about this.
Any bets
on the Beechcraft-Cessna-Piper trio before Cirrus and Diamond?

At a wild guess I'd say Extra, since they already have one

http://www.extraaircraft.com/ea400.asp
http://www.anft.net/f-14/extra400.htm

--
Allen

Based on a Comanche...

http://www.ravinaircraft.com/

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:25:44 -0500, Marco Leon mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote:

Who do you all think will be the first to come out with a new certified
single-engine, six-place composite (non-aluminium) airframe? Given
Cirrus'
success, all the manufacturers are undoubtedly thinking about this. Any
bets
on the Beechcraft-Cessna-Piper trio before Cirrus and Diamond?





--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

"Marco Leon" wrote:
Who do you all think will be the first to come out with a new certified
single-engine, six-place composite (non-aluminium) airframe? Given Cirrus'
success, all the manufacturers are undoubtedly thinking about this. Any
bets
on the Beechcraft-Cessna-Piper trio before Cirrus and Diamond?

Don't bet on Beechcraft-Cessna-Piper to make any kind of stab at certifying a
new light SE airplane.

Beechcraft is playing out the Bonanza/Baron string, seeing just how high they
can price them and still sell enough to keep production going. Guys like me
who have always lusted for a Bo' are aging Baby Boomers, there's no one new
coming along that cares enough about the brand to spend $800K on a SE piston
airplane. Raytheon will shut it down when that market fizzles out.

Piper is a walking corpse à la Mooney, perpetually being revived in the
bankruptcy courts. The idea that they could attract enough development
capital for a new design and certification process is pure fantasy.

Cessna would be a very long shot. Enough alternatives to the 172 are coming
along that the natural-progression pipeline to 182s and 206s will dry up.
Cessna will either have to come up with something new or face increasing loss
of market share to modern designs. Oshkosh rumors notwithstanding, there
doesn't seem to be anything serious going on at Cessna WRT a new SE airplane.

These companies have missed the modern light aircraft boat; it sailed away
with Cirrus and Diamond aboard, pulling Lancair behind in an innertube.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

"Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote in message
...
I guess I was thinking about piston single engine composites.

The Extra 400 *is* a piston single engine composite.

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"Marco Leon" wrote:
Who do you all think will be the first to come out with a new certified
single-engine, six-place composite (non-aluminium) airframe? Given
Cirrus'
success, all the manufacturers are undoubtedly thinking about this. Any
bets
on the Beechcraft-Cessna-Piper trio before Cirrus and Diamond?

Don't bet on Beechcraft-Cessna-Piper to make any kind of stab at
certifying a
new light SE airplane.

Beechcraft is playing out the Bonanza/Baron string, seeing just how high
they
can price them and still sell enough to keep production going. Guys like
me
who have always lusted for a Bo' are aging Baby Boomers, there's no one
new
coming along that cares enough about the brand to spend $800K on a SE
piston
airplane. Raytheon will shut it down when that market fizzles out.

Piper is a walking corpse à la Mooney, perpetually being revived in the
bankruptcy courts. The idea that they could attract enough development
capital for a new design and certification process is pure fantasy.

Cessna would be a very long shot. Enough alternatives to the 172 are
coming
along that the natural-progression pipeline to 182s and 206s will dry up.
Cessna will either have to come up with something new or face increasing
loss
of market share to modern designs. Oshkosh rumors notwithstanding, there
doesn't seem to be anything serious going on at Cessna WRT a new SE
airplane.

These companies have missed the modern light aircraft boat; it sailed away
with Cirrus and Diamond aboard, pulling Lancair behind in an innertube.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM


Dan I believe your right.
They should be able to build and sell an A36 for 150,000 depending on
avionics. There really is not that much to an airplane. I may be missing
something like the cost of the insurance, but there just isn't that much to
a single engine plane.

"aluckyguess" wrote in message
...
They should be able to build and sell an A36 for 150,000 depending on
avionics. There really is not that much to an airplane. I may be missing
something like the cost of the insurance, but there just isn't that much
to a single engine plane.

Of course there is. Airplanes aren't produced in large enough quantities to
take advantage of modern automated mass-production techniques; they are
essentially hand built. And of course there are all the costs associated
with complying with regulatory requirements.

Just because the cost of materials is relatively low, that doesn't mean it
doesn't cost a lot to produce an airplane.

I think it highly unlikely that, given the large number of aircraft
manufacturers, that they are all colluding on the price. And that's the
only way to explain how prices are so high if your assertion about what they
*should* cost is correct.

In any case, I think you entirely misunderstood Dan's point. The
manufacturers he cites as positive examples aren't selling aircraft any
cheaper than the negative examples he gives.

Pete