Postponed 3 students due to TSA

Jim... they published it.. I have a pdf file of the TSA letter.. would you
like a copy?
It can be retrieved from the AOPA web page, on TSA letterhead

BT

"Jim Vincent" wrote in message
...
ut it is not so until
published..

BT

C'mon BT, what are you scared off. Defy the *******s just like the rest
of us.

It occurs to me, can I get Soaring forwarded to Gitmo when they come
knocked at
the door?

One of the priveleges of the Patriot Act that they can come and arrest
anyone
they want without due process. Then again, they may reverse the ruling by
Spring time when it would be warm here in the northeast US again.

Jim Vincent
N483SZ
illspam

they want without due process. Then again, they may reverse the ruling by
Spring time when it would be warm here in the northeast US again.

Jim Vincent
N483SZ
illspam

Jim... you may be able to wait it out until spring...
We fly all winter.. and would hate to be "ramp checked" by a TSA rep..

granted.. they should have more important things to do.

BT

CV wrote in message ...

But OK then, besides smaller groups like kibbutzes or the Amish you
mention (must confess I have no idea what they are), ant colonies
and the like :0),

The Amish are a religious group, pretty much rejecting modern
conveniences, and more or less being what most people would like to
say they are, a community. They are also one of the last places on
earth where you can go and buy furniture that is made tastefully, and
with quality materials, knowing that the hand fit joints aren't going
to loosen up in a year. (And contrary to Tadysch adds, if you want
the good stuff, you'll go to the craftsman himself, not an outlet that
sells mass produced "almost good" furniture.) At the first glance,
they appear to be a gentle people, but many of their ways are hard and
cold, and you won't ever come out on top dealing with them, even
maybe, but they're not fools in their business affairs. What stands
them apart from most places, they really do care about their
communities and their people. Not just lip service like every other
"community."

CV wrote in message ...
Clint wrote:
The communism as practiced by Russia until ~1990 and China is very
different from the theoretical concepts originally proposed by Lenin

Actual practice often turns out very different from theoretical
concepts.

etc. Kibbutzez in Israel are far closer to the original communist
proposal, yet have no fascist overtones. Ideal communism is everybody
working together for the good of the community. I think that the Amish
practice a form of communism in the way that they work together. I
don't think that the Amish can be called fascists

It is very funny that the Germans of the 1920's and 30's so feared
communism that they went with the fascism of the Nazis - and how that
changed world history.

Apartheid South Africa had many of the trappings of fascism
(especially if you happened to be non-white) but was totally opposed
to communism. The current government is far more lenient towards
communism - the South African Communist Party is an active part of the
government - yet is not fascist at all. There is no merit in saying
that fascism is a necessary part of communism and vice-versa - they
are very different models.

Noone has claimed the vice-versa afaik.

But OK then, besides smaller groups like kibbutzes or the Amish you
mention (must confess I have no idea what they are), ant colonies
and the like :0), name a country that has had a communist system
for any amount of time without fascist-style repression and
persecution to keep their citizenry in line.

CV


The Amish are a religious group who live in settlements in 22 states
and Ontario, Canada. The oldest group of Old Order Amish, about
16-18,000 people live in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. The Amish
stress humility, family and community, and separation from the world.

A communist system based on the fear of God - rather than the fear of
military rule :-)

15000 ft cloudbase - 4m/s thermals. Got to love Africa.

Clinton Birch
Lak 12

Two thoughts about all of this:

Support AOPA, EAA, and SSA as they do their best to jointly guide TSA =
back to sanity. They may need your help at some point, $ and Letter =
writing to appointed and elected officials.

Burt's operation is in a hotbed of Border Patrol activity, a large =
headquarters, a training facility on the airport he operates from, =
nearby checkpoints, and heavy patrolling. While visiting last year, I =
left my car parked and running, the drivers door open, and parked right =
at the door to my room while carrying items in. In the time it took me =
to make one trip, I returned to find a friendly Border Patrol officer, =
with hand on 9mm Glock waiting to find out who I was and to inform me =
that there was no shortage of pedestrians in the area, more than willing =
to borrow my SUV. If these folks were to stumble into an aircraft =
related incident, it would not be long until TSA and the FAA were =
involved. Attention Burt really does not need.

Secondly, on November 2nd, US voters need to keep in mind which =
candidate they may vote for that could deliver more TSAs to delve into =
our lives at our expense - AND PULL THE OTHER LEVER! You know who I am =
referring to!

Thanks all for the replies.

The reason I asked this, is that in some European contries, Diesel is
much, much cheaper than AVgas or Mogas. "Red" diesel is untaxed and
illegal for road use, but a towplane doesn't operate from roads.
Besides, diesel engines also run on Jet A-1, which here has tax
advantages, at least at the time.

Our club actually has a winch (most clubs in Holland do), but we cannot
use it during airport operation (=thermal) hours since we operate on a
busy, narrow airstrip with powerd aircraft operations. As AVGas is
getting very expensive (not only here, I guess...), the usual
Robin/Husky/... tow planes become more and more uneconomical. We now use
a Super Dimona (Katana Xtreme) to tow even our Janus C and ASH-25 from
the grass strip, but in heavy crosswind we sometimes can see the cars
too near below us. This motorglider however seems to be the only way to
keep our tow costs reasonably down.

At least for this part of Europe, I think a Diesel in a Robin-like
airframe would be a very nice replacement. Let's see what the near
future brings.

Olfert
Hornet A7

"Olfert Cleveringa" wrote in message
.com...
Thanks all for the replies.

The reason I asked this, is that in some European contries, Diesel is
much, much cheaper than AVgas or Mogas. "Red" diesel is untaxed and
illegal for road use, but a towplane doesn't operate from roads.
Besides, diesel engines also run on Jet A-1, which here has tax
advantages, at least at the time.

Our club actually has a winch (most clubs in Holland do), but we cannot
use it during airport operation (=thermal) hours since we operate on a
busy, narrow airstrip with powerd aircraft operations. As AVGas is
getting very expensive (not only here, I guess...), the usual
Robin/Husky/... tow planes become more and more uneconomical. We now use
a Super Dimona (Katana Xtreme) to tow even our Janus C and ASH-25 from
the grass strip, but in heavy crosswind we sometimes can see the cars
too near below us. This motorglider however seems to be the only way to
keep our tow costs reasonably down.

At least for this part of Europe, I think a Diesel in a Robin-like
airframe would be a very nice replacement. Let's see what the near
future brings.

Olfert
Hornet A7

I agree with Olfert.

The world needs a purpose-designed towplane and, if the designer choose one
of the new diesels, that would be a very good thing. It would probably look
something like a Super Dimona but with taller landing gear and bigger prop.
With good aerodynamics, 135 HP would handle the heaviest gliders.

Bill Daniels

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:kaVgd.278275$wV.24225@attbi_s54...

"Olfert Cleveringa" wrote in message
.com...
Thanks all for the replies.

The reason I asked this, is that in some European contries, Diesel is
much, much cheaper than AVgas or Mogas. "Red" diesel is untaxed and
illegal for road use, but a towplane doesn't operate from roads.
Besides, diesel engines also run on Jet A-1, which here has tax
advantages, at least at the time.

Our club actually has a winch (most clubs in Holland do), but we cannot
use it during airport operation (=thermal) hours since we operate on a
busy, narrow airstrip with powerd aircraft operations. As AVGas is
getting very expensive (not only here, I guess...), the usual
Robin/Husky/... tow planes become more and more uneconomical. We now use
a Super Dimona (Katana Xtreme) to tow even our Janus C and ASH-25 from
the grass strip, but in heavy crosswind we sometimes can see the cars
too near below us. This motorglider however seems to be the only way to
keep our tow costs reasonably down.

At least for this part of Europe, I think a Diesel in a Robin-like
airframe would be a very nice replacement. Let's see what the near
future brings.

Olfert
Hornet A7

I agree with Olfert.

The world needs a purpose-designed towplane and, if the designer choose
one
of the new diesels, that would be a very good thing. It would probably
look
something like a Super Dimona but with taller landing gear and bigger
prop.
With good aerodynamics, 135 HP would handle the heaviest gliders.

Bill Daniels


Yep, and it should have "ferry tips" that shorten the span, to make it a
little faster to move from place to place. They should fit inside the
airplane. Then when you get there, swap tips back for the higher AR climb
configuration.

Tim Ward

"Tim Ward" wrote in message
...

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:kaVgd.278275$wV.24225@attbi_s54...

"Olfert Cleveringa" wrote in message
.com...
Thanks all for the replies.

The reason I asked this, is that in some European contries, Diesel is
much, much cheaper than AVgas or Mogas. "Red" diesel is untaxed and
illegal for road use, but a towplane doesn't operate from roads.
Besides, diesel engines also run on Jet A-1, which here has tax
advantages, at least at the time.

Our club actually has a winch (most clubs in Holland do), but we
cannot
use it during airport operation (=thermal) hours since we operate on a
busy, narrow airstrip with powerd aircraft operations. As AVGas is
getting very expensive (not only here, I guess...), the usual
Robin/Husky/... tow planes become more and more uneconomical. We now
use
a Super Dimona (Katana Xtreme) to tow even our Janus C and ASH-25 from
the grass strip, but in heavy crosswind we sometimes can see the cars
too near below us. This motorglider however seems to be the only way
to
keep our tow costs reasonably down.

At least for this part of Europe, I think a Diesel in a Robin-like
airframe would be a very nice replacement. Let's see what the near
future brings.

Olfert
Hornet A7

I agree with Olfert.

The world needs a purpose-designed towplane and, if the designer choose
one
of the new diesels, that would be a very good thing. It would probably
look
something like a Super Dimona but with taller landing gear and bigger
prop.
With good aerodynamics, 135 HP would handle the heaviest gliders.

Bill Daniels


Yep, and it should have "ferry tips" that shorten the span, to make it a
little faster to move from place to place. They should fit inside the
airplane. Then when you get there, swap tips back for the higher AR climb
configuration.

Tim Ward

Removable tips would let it reside in a standard T-hangar.

Bill Daniels

Olfert Cleveringa wrote:

At least for this part of Europe, I think a Diesel in a Robin-like
airframe would be a very nice replacement.

I don't think so, there are better solutions.

This year, in Switzerland, we've carried out serious experiments with
those new ultra lights as tow planes, with the allowance and under the
supervision of the FOCA. The results were unexpected and spectacular.
(For our American friends: I'm not speaking of those flying lawn-movers,
but of the new high tech airplanes rated as Ultra Lights in Europe. Look
at http://www.remos.com/ and http://www.lightwing.ch/ for two examples.)

As I said, the results were astonishing. Powered with a 100 hp Rotax
engine, they performed as well if not better than a typical "classic"
180 hp towplane! Even a heavy two seater on wet grass wasn't a problem!
Start roll was even shorter, the noise level was much lower (important
in Europe), and all with a gas burn of 12l/h instead of 40l/h. (Or
similiar, I don't have the exact numbers handy.) Even when high tows
lasted a little longer (i.e. 15 instead of 12 minutes), they were much
cheaper.

We discussed why those planes would perform so well with only 100 hp. We
think, there are mainly two reasons. First, as the name says, they are
very light. It makes a difference whether the plane weights 1000 kg or
400. Then, "traditional" airplanes fly way too slowly on tow. They are
operated far away from their best climb speed, while those ultralights
are operated very near best climb speed. But for whatever reason, in
Switzerland it is common belief now that those ultra lights are the
future of towing.

Stefan