Girl Scouts and aviation??

Jay, I believe you but I really want to say "Are you kidding..." the
Girl Scout Manual says they are not permitted to fly in private
planes???!!! Does it really say that? I don't have a GS Manual handy

When I tried to get involved with Aviation Exploring (I was the
Aviation Explorer Coordinator for the county BSA Council). I wanted
to line up aviation-related activities (Tower, Center visits and
tours of aviation museums) via short trips in GA aircraft .. no dice.

BSA HQ, at that time, steadfastly felt that these Piper Cubs were
downright dangerous and put so many restrictions that they, in
essence, prohibited flights as part of any Aviation Exploring
program.

Glad to see that things may have changed ... maybe enough of the
folks here abandoning BSA over this issue may have helped change
BSA's mind.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in
oups.com:

Nothing severe in the BSA insurance restrictions. EAA provies the
$1m smooth insurance for you for $35/year. I do it all the time,
no problem with BSA. You just need to fill out both a BSA tour
permit and a flight permit and have it signed by council. YOu also
need to provide information such as medical,etc

--

Jay, I believe you but I really want to say "Are you kidding..." the
Girl Scout Manual says they are not permitted to fly in private
planes???!!! Does it really say that? I don't have a GS Manual handy

Sad, but true.

It's in a 1/2 inch thick book of rules called "Safety-wise". This is the
book that spells out ALL the Girl Scout safety regulations, including how
many adults are allowed on road trips, who may drive, etc.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

But remember, the rule against flying is only for official, organized
Girl Scout activities....

That's a loophole you can driver a 747 thru...

Which brings up an interesting question....If John Travolta or one
of the executives at Boeing or Airbus offer a field trip to a troop
and the aircraft will be something like a 737, 747, A340, etc.
what's the policy? It's not Part 121. And if it's Travolta, it's
not part 135.

What's the policy?

With the BSA the problem is Lawyers..........Not parents of the kids.



"Blueskies" wrote in message
m...

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...

major snip

"Steven Barnes" wrote in message
om...
"Blueskies" wrote in message
. com...

Hmmm, we had many, many Girl Scouts show up at the Young Eagles rally
here
a while back. There is a aviation (or
aerospace) badge they can get.


Interesting. My ex-wife is leader of my daughter's brownie troop. I
would
love nothing more, than to give a little talk about aviation during a
field
trip to the airport. Let the girls see/touch/sit in the plane. Hadn't
considered any rides, due to too many nervous moms to deal with. I
wasn't
sure where to even look up any info on how to make a proper
presentation. I
would never have thought some manual would prohibit it.

Weird.

We've faced a similar problem with Boy Scouts. They are not allowed to
fly in EXPERIMENTAL aircraft. Makes it tough when the EAA chapter is
giving the rides, and huge surprise!! most of the aircraft are
Experimental. We've started telling Scout groups that their members are
welcome to come fly at Young Eagle events, but not to do it as part of an
official scout activity - i.e. no uniform, etc.

Works fine.

KB


So Boy Scouts in uniform cannot ride in an experimental aircraft? As long
as it is not officially sanctioned by the BSA or the troop, there should
be no concern about what they are wearing...

To take this further, there is a huge perception issue here. The AOPA and
EAA should get out and promote aviation at these associations. I know I
have pushed around here to get things going (my daughter is 11 and was a
girl scout, troop broke up). Seems pretty odd that the EAA would even play
along under these restrictions; the whole point is to promote experimental
aircraft. Funny how we roll over just to get the numbers up...

If a youth is really interested in Aviation I suggest the check out the
local CAP group.

As a Scout Master I have had my Troop to airshows, EAA events, several
Museums, Vandenberg, Travis, Castle, Beale, and Edwards. Just when it comes
to flying I have a note from the parents that they can, but just not in
uniform.


"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Montblack" wrote in message
...
Over the years I've seen a few Cub Scout / aviation posts on these
newsgroups. I do not recall seeing similar Girl Scout / aviation posts.

Girl Scouts aren't allowed to fly in private aircraft at all. Boy Scouts
have such severe restrictions ($1 million smooth liability, for example)
that they may as well be prohibited as well. Most youth organizations have
become so risk averse that you wonder how they function at all. The Boy
Scouts theoretically have the Aviation Explorers (for both boys and
girls),
but try to actually organize a post....

Well, okay. The effect of many of these rules is that some leaders go
ahead
and organize the prohibited activity anyway. They won't be covered by the
Scouts' insurance and assume all liability on their own. You could require
parents to sign a release acknowledging that the activity is prohibited by
the Scouting organization.

It isn't just aviation, you know. Restrictions on campfires, sharp
objects,
camping, swimming, boating, travel by car, and everything else have pretty
much confined a lot of Scouting units to meeting in churches and either
playing basketball or discussing careers.

"Blanche" wrote in message
...
But remember, the rule against flying is only for official, organized
Girl Scout activities....

That's a loophole you can driver a 747 thru...

Really?

Which brings up an interesting question....If John Travolta or one
of the executives at Boeing or Airbus offer a field trip to a troop
and the aircraft will be something like a 737, 747, A340, etc.
what's the policy? It's not Part 121. And if it's Travolta, it's
not part 135.

What's the policy?

The policy is that you need to understand the regulations better than you
obviously do.

Large transport aircraft such as the 737 and larger are covered by certain
portions of the transport rules (that is, not just Part 91) even if they are
not flown as commercial operations.

However, I fail to see what the type of aircraft has to do with the
"loophole" you claim exists. The "loophole" isn't a loophole at all, since
an activity that's not an official, organized Girl Scout activity wouldn't
incur any liability risk for the Girl Scouts. It certainly doesn't seem to
have anything to do with the type of the aircraft, or what portions of the
FARs apply to the flights.

How are the two questions related?

Pete

It's the Young Eagles insurance and it's included in your membership.
They will provide you proof of insurance for BSA. So the insurance
works like this...
1) You carry $1m total with $100,000 per seat (I doubt any aircraft
owner carries less, I don't think you can even buy less)
2) EAA makes that $1m smooth (no seat limit)
3) BSA takes that and adds their $10m smooth (standard for all BSA
"tours" this is why you need the tour permit from BSA before you fly).
If you don't get the tour permit, the BSA leaders who bring the kids
can become personally liable. I always carry my BSA permits anytime I
take the boys outside our general area (10 mile rule).

So you have a $10m smooth policy in the end.

-Robert, CFI & BSA Leader

BTW: Here are the BSA forms...
Flight Permit itself http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/forms/23-672.pdf
"Tour Permit" (includes protection for the car ride out, this is VERY
important to BSA) http://www.scouting.org/forms/34426.pdf
The second permit will probably be done by the BSA leader. We all keep
all the car insurance information ,etc ready so its pretty quick to
just put it down on the form (we don't collect that information each
time).

Both permit applications need to be presented to your local council.
Council will sign it and stamp it.

I can tell you of several stores (both BSA and Girl Scouts) where
leaders were sued by parents after kids broke arms, etc on a trip. In
each case the permits were presented to the BSA attorney and they took
it from there.
Remember, these are kids. Many can be impulsive and awkward. The odds
of a kid falling down and getting hurt while walking out to the plane
is actually quite high.
Of course, as you get into the older boys (Adventure Scouts, etc) you
are then dealing with near-adults who are old enough to actually take
lessons.



-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
It's the Young Eagles insurance and it's included in your membership.
They will provide you proof of insurance for BSA. So the insurance
works like this...
1) You carry $1m total with $100,000 per seat (I doubt any aircraft
owner carries less, I don't think you can even buy less)
2) EAA makes that $1m smooth (no seat limit)
3) BSA takes that and adds their $10m smooth (standard for all BSA
"tours" this is why you need the tour permit from BSA before you fly).
If you don't get the tour permit, the BSA leaders who bring the kids
can become personally liable. I always carry my BSA permits anytime I
take the boys outside our general area (10 mile rule).

So you have a $10m smooth policy in the end.

-Robert, CFI & BSA Leader

The BSA insurance is to cover the BSA and probably won't do diddly for the
pilot.