What it's all about

Grumman-581 wrote:
"George Patterson" wrote in message news:wwU4e.253$ha3.51@trndny02...

Then you have to heat the parking garage. Not a viable solution here, and

Iowa

is worse.


Why? They don't have heated parking as it exists now...

You said "Plumbing exposed in the covered parking room so that you can see where
the leaks are coming from (and not park your car in that spot)..." That means it
will freeze unless the parking area is heated.

George Patterson
Whosoever bloweth not his own horn, the same shall remain unblown.

("George Patterson" wrote)
You said "Plumbing exposed in the covered parking room so that you can see
where the leaks are coming from (and not park your car in that spot)..."
That means it will freeze unless the parking area is heated.


Not so much...

(First, if your spot is under the leak, that's where you will park - or take
it outside g)

We lived Downtown Minneapolis for 5 years (during that city's infamous mid
90's Murder-apolis run). 8 story apartment building was built in 1984. The
main floor had a single entrance 18 stall parking garage on one half and
office and "community" rooms on on the other half. Apartment units started
on the second floor. There was also a (bigger) basement garage that had its
own side entrance, it covered 3/4 of the building's footprint.

The building was brick faced over cinder block, with pre-stressed (hollow
core) concrete spans for the floors - like building a bridge. Solid building
is an understatement. There was also a steel skeleton.

We parked our 89 Probe in the garage on the first floor. Each parking
section was divided into 3 car spots, then an 18 ft long cinder block
dividing wall, then another 3 spots. I'm building thermal mass in my
description.

Around the cinder block wall from our car, in the next parking section over,
was a very large vent to the outside - I'm guessing 6 ft x 5 ft. Metal vent
slats - that's it. Basement garage had one too. It seemed like they were
always open a little. You could see outside, right through the main floor
vents, with only a bug screen to block the view.

Temp never got below freezing in there. We did an experiment in 1996 (-40
F/C in Minneapolis) We left a 16 ounce watter bottle on top of our car, most
of the winter, with an inch of water in it. It never froze - not over night,
not for 3 days at a time, never.

Getting back to the water pipes, yes they were exposed in the garage. A big
black drain pipe was in the front corner of our stall. Big water pipes were
exposed, plus a sprinkler system.

So my experience is buildings like this have been built and work just fine.
Thermal mass is my guess.


http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=235178
Our building is/was the one with the A/C wall units. Garage entrance is
about where the woman is walking. The basement garage ramp is just out of
the picture - to the right. This photo is the back of the building. From the
front door, it's 7 blocks to the center of downtown Mpls. At 5:07pm she'd be
home from work - having walked over the bridge where drivers were waiting,
backed up for blocks (1 car per green) to be allowed on the freeway for
their 40 minute commute home. g


Montblack

Montblack wrote:
("George Patterson" wrote)

You said "Plumbing exposed in the covered parking room so that you can
see
where the leaks are coming from (and not park your car in that spot)..."
That means it will freeze unless the parking area is heated.

Not so much...

Having made a few hundred dollars this past winter repairing frozen pipes (one
of which was in the exterior wall of a well-heated apartment, the other of which
was in an interior wall of an attached garage), I stand by my statement. If you
don't heat it, the water pipes will freeze - not might freeze -- *will* freeze.

George Patterson
Whosoever bloweth not his own horn, the same shall remain unblown.

Having made a few hundred dollars this past winter repairing frozen pipes
(one of which was in the exterior wall of a well-heated apartment, the
other of which was in an interior wall of an attached garage), I stand by
my statement. If you don't heat it, the water pipes will freeze - not
might freeze -- *will* freeze.

On Christmas day (of course) we had a water pipe freeze -- and burst --
inside the outer wall of a suite.

The guest -- a long-term university professor -- was out of town, and
thought she would "do us a favor" by turning her thermostat all the way
down, to "save us money."

The resulting fountain hit her bed, her clothing, and (of course) the suite
below. The outside temperature was right around zero degrees Fahrenheit.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"George Patterson" wrote in message news:6qk5e.275$1p4.29@trndny06...
Having made a few hundred dollars this past winter repairing frozen pipes
(one
of which was in the exterior wall of a well-heated apartment, the other of
which
was in an interior wall of an attached garage), I stand by my statement.
If you
don't heat it, the water pipes will freeze - not might freeze -- *will*
freeze.

So, you heat the pipes like they do on airliners and the fancy bizjets...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
and another hanger mate, Justin
Fishbaugh, showed off his just-completed (first flight: Next week!)
Glasair III. Ten years in the building, it's an exquisite work of art.

Hi Jay (et al), sorry I've not been on here for ages, been too busy to
read this stuff in work these days!

Glad to hear that, and hope the first flight goes ok!

Paul

In article Ndn5e.12940$g65.435@attbi_s52,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:


On Christmas day (of course) we had a water pipe freeze -- and burst --
inside the outer wall of a suite.

The guest -- a long-term university professor -- was out of town, and
thought she would "do us a favor" by turning her thermostat all the way
down, to "save us money."


Since this is already OT and a similar incident is on my mind (and desk)
as I read it, I'll respond: Instead of a plane we have a Lake Tahoe
townhouse (about same price) which we haven't been able to go up to this
winter (medical hassles). The thermostat in our unit has a little
plastic dot glued on the thermostat so it _can't_ be moved below 55 deg,
but the starter gadget on the gas furnace failed; water line froze and
broke (outside and underneath fortunately); water ran downhill under
the snow and ice for over a month, unnoticed by neighbors or development
manager, until the meter reading people finally noticed: well over a
MILLION GALLONS lost.

My wife wrote a pleading letter in response to the resulting bill, and
the North Tahoe PUD was merciful: just opened their response, in which
they trim the total bill down to $1K total (most of the water went back
into the Lake anyway).

"AES" wrote

My wife wrote a pleading letter in response to the resulting bill, and
the North Tahoe PUD was merciful: just opened their response, in which
they trim the total bill down to $1K total (most of the water went back
into the Lake anyway).

That does not sound all that merciful. My parents had a waterline leak, and
their water co. lowered it to about $250.
--
Jim in NC

Paul! Man, we thought you had fallen off the planet. Glad you're
back!

Hope the Bulldog is running well?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Ha! My water company would spit in my eye if I asked for money off of
a bill, for any reason.

And, with 15 jacuzzi hot tubs (re-filled at each use), an in-ground
sprinkler system, and a 24,000 gallon swimming pool, you can well
imagine that we're one of their, uh, better customers...

Worse yet, water here in Iowa City is triple the cost of water in my
home town of Racine, WI. Of course, being on the shores of Lake
Michigan may have had *something* to do with their cheaper rates...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"