Need a 2nd nav with GNS 430?

I have three 430/530 installations, two in the MU-2 and one in the Helio.
None of the Flight Manual Supplements require a current database for
approaches.

Mike
MU-2

"Peter R." wrote in message
oups.com...
Jose wrote:

3: if you can't update the database (such as you're in the middle of
a
trip during the window) you can't do IMC anymore. BTDT - at
Sun'n'Fun,
no less.

Is this a specific limitation spelled out in Garmin's POH supplement?
Not that I have done this due to burning my own cards and maintaining a
current subscription, but I was under the impression that one could
even fly an approach with an expired database, as long as a) the GPS
supplement doesn't restrict this and b) the pilot verifies the GPS
approach with a published approach plate.

If you burn your own database cards, you will note that the database
update for the Garmin GNS430/530 is normally released (at least here in
the US) ten days or so before becoming current. I suppose it is not
unrealistic to be away from home longer than ten days, but that does
provide some amount of time to plan for the expiration.

BTW, you raise some excellent points about the GPS being a single point
of failure. I also have also experienced three different GPS problems
during three different flights that rendered the unit inoperative for
five minutes or so per event. One was my fault, as I opened a bottle
of water at altitude that sprayed all over the GPS, thanks to the
pressure difference. The MSG button temporarily shorted out and I
could not see any page except the message page.

The other two problems were GPS software related. Of these two, the
notable one occurred when the database card I had in the unit became
*current* during my flight (at the crack of 00:00z of the new day - I
had placed the card in a day early for the flight). This was a
Bendix-King KLN-94 GPS and at the crack of 00z, a message appeared
stating that the unit needed to be rebooted due to the database
becoming current. Ridiculous of the unit to do this, but it caught me
with my pants down as the unit could not acquire satellites right away
upon rebooting. IMC at night and I did not have the VORs set as
backup. I scrambled to set up my VORs and only managed to drift off
course by a mile or two before getting back on course. That was a good
lesson.

--
Peter

On Thu, 05 May 2005 00:22:53 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

I have three 430/530 installations, two in the MU-2 and one in the Helio.
None of the Flight Manual Supplements require a current database for
approaches.


Does the language in the GNS530 pilots guide, page 4:

"The database confirmation page appears next and shows the current
database information on the NavData card (with the valid operating
dates, cycle number and database type included). The database is
updated every 28 days and must be current for approved instrument
approach operations."

not create a requirement that the database be current to use the unit
for GPS or overlay approaches?

No, it is the flight manual supplement that is controlling. There may be
different supplements out there with different requirments too.

Mike
MU-2


"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 May 2005 00:22:53 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

I have three 430/530 installations, two in the MU-2 and one in the Helio.
None of the Flight Manual Supplements require a current database for
approaches.


Does the language in the GNS530 pilots guide, page 4:

"The database confirmation page appears next and shows the current
database information on the NavData card (with the valid operating
dates, cycle number and database type included). The database is
updated every 28 days and must be current for approved instrument
approach operations."

not create a requirement that the database be current to use the unit
for GPS or overlay approaches?

Does the language in the GNS530 pilots guide, page 4:

[...]The database is
updated every 28 days and must be current for approved instrument
approach operations."

not create a requirement that the database be current to use the unit
for GPS or overlay approaches?

No, it is the flight manual supplement that is controlling. There may be
different supplements out there with different requirments too.

You don't think "careless and reckless" would occur to the FAA should
such operations come to their attention?

Jose
(r.a.homebuilt retained, though I don't follow that group)
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

No. The only FAA approved document is the Flight Manual Supplement.

Mike
MU-2


"Jose" wrote in message
...
Does the language in the GNS530 pilots guide, page 4:

[...]The database is
updated every 28 days and must be current for approved instrument
approach operations."

not create a requirement that the database be current to use the unit
for GPS or overlay approaches?

No, it is the flight manual supplement that is controlling. There may be
different supplements out there with different requirments too.

You don't think "careless and reckless" would occur to the FAA should such
operations come to their attention?

Jose
(r.a.homebuilt retained, though I don't follow that group)
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

3: if you can't update the database (such as you're in the middle of a
trip during the window) you can't do IMC anymore. BTDT - at Sun'n'Fun,
no less.

Chalk another one up for the 480...you can load two cycles up and it
auto switches.

4: you're in some bumpy clouds, reach over to switch off the strobes or
switch on the pitot heat or something, and a bump causes you to hit the
master. Oops - flip it back on. VORs come right back. NAV comes right
back. ADF comes right back. DME comes right back. GPS begins to
acquire satellites, do its self test, and waits for you to push the
lawyer button before continuing. Meanwhile, you're doing 150 knots in
the soup and just got an amended clearance. BTDT

Does not the 430 NAV section come up immeciately?


6: If you have an electrical failure in IMC, you may need to decide
what units to leave on the battery and what units to shut off. I don't
know the 430's current draw; you may be better off with just a single
VOR in some cases (though I wouldn't be surprised if the old VOR
receivers draw more than the new GPSs). BTDT, though without the 430.

Depends on what your other radio is. If it's comething modern like
an SL30, you're probably OK. But I was looking at the current draw
(again for the 480) and it doesn't draw much until you press the PTT
on the comm side.

Does not the 430 NAV section come up immeciately?

Maybe the VOR part does, but the GPS doesn't. And if you've been
navigating by GPS, the VOR might not be set as a backup, but instead be
set for something else.

But it's a good point, and a good reason to have the 430 VOR set to back
up any navigation to/from VORs. Of course, navigating by GPS direct
this may not be that often.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Bryan Martin wrote:

I would put a guard around that master switch so you can't accidentally
switch it off. On my Zodiac, I put the master switch far away from any other
switch I'm likely to reach for in flight. I have bumped it into the ON
position with my knee once or twice while getting out of the plane so maybe
I still need a guard on it.


in article , Jose at
wrote on 5/5/05 8:53 AM:


Does not the 430 NAV section come up immeciately?

Maybe the VOR part does, but the GPS doesn't. And if you've been
navigating by GPS, the VOR might not be set as a backup, but instead be
set for something else.

But it's a good point, and a good reason to have the 430 VOR set to back
up any navigation to/from VORs. Of course, navigating by GPS direct
this may not be that often.

Jose


Which brings me to my pet peeves about switches. I see too many people
put a row of identical swithes right above the knee near the bottom of
the panel. As you say they are too easy to bump getting in or out. They
could tear your knee up in an accident. The problem with them being
identical is there is no tactile difference when you reach for them.

Making switches that feel different is easy. Make shapes from aluminum
bar stock drill a hole in the shape then either epoxy or pin it to the
toggle using a roll pin or screw. This is how some switches used in
airliners and military aircraft are made. Another way takes a lottle
more work: you can thread the end of the toggle and have the shape screw
on. I have seen switches in fighters made this way.

Similar tricks can be used for rotary switches.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Bryan Martin wrote:

Another method is to group the switches in some sort of logical sequence no
more than four in a group. I have my master all the way to the left of the
panel next to the alternator CB. My ignition selector switch and fuel pump
selector switch are centered in front of me with their CBs. My four exterior
lighting switches are further to the right separated from the other
switches. All these switches have an identical feel but the grouping makes
it unlikely that I'll get the wrong one.

My switch panel is high enough that my knees won't hit it when I'm sitting
in the cockpit but climbing in and out is a bit of a trick.

A picture of my panel is on the Rouges Gallery site.

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/Photoga...rtin/Panel.jpg



Not too shabby, but where are the cup holders?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

I don't have one handy since I don't own one of these units, but don't
they have some language in the supplement that reads similar to "must
be operated in accordance with the pilots guide" or "see pilots guide
for further information"?

On Thu, 05 May 2005 03:15:34 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

No. The only FAA approved document is the Flight Manual Supplement.

Mike
MU-2


"Jose" wrote in message
m...
Does the language in the GNS530 pilots guide, page 4:

[...]The database is
updated every 28 days and must be current for approved instrument
approach operations."

not create a requirement that the database be current to use the unit
for GPS or overlay approaches?

No, it is the flight manual supplement that is controlling. There may be
different supplements out there with different requirments too.

You don't think "careless and reckless" would occur to the FAA should such
operations come to their attention?

Jose
(r.a.homebuilt retained, though I don't follow that group)
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.