Interesting observatoin about the ADIZ-busting C150

I think the point about flight following is that the pilots in
question
likely would have been alerted to the fact that they were going to
bust
it before they busted it. They didn't need to go through it, just
around it.

Jonathon

If they were squawking and talking (I.E flight following), then there
is
nothing to "bust".

Allen

Flight Following does not guarrantee anything. The PIC still shoulders
primary responsibility to avoiid restricted airspace and other aircraft
(in VMC). ATC usually does a good job about reminding participating
aircraft of airspace and tracks/targets, but just because you have FF
does not automatically give you carte blanche to enter class B or class
D or any airspace except the airspace "owned" by the controlling agency
providing the service. Nine times out of ten, ATC will coordinate the
appropriate clearance but if they get busy and forget, you're screwed
if you thought you can use FF as a defense.
Tim

In article ,
A Lieberman wrote:
I think the point about flight following is that the pilots in question
likely would have been alerted to the fact that they were going to bust
it before they busted it. They didn't need to go through it, just
around it.

Jonathon

If they were squawking and talking (I.E flight following), then there is
nothing to "bust".


I believe that entry into the ADIZ requires more than just "squawking
and talking," as does entry into Class B airspace. Establishment of
two-way radio communication, even under flight following, is not the
same thing as a clearance.



JKG

Jonathan Goodish wrote:



I believe that entry into the ADIZ requires more than just "squawking
and talking," as does entry into Class B airspace.

The ADIZ requires:
1. A filed ADIZ flight plan.
2. An assigned code.
3. Communciations with ATC.

It does not require any sort of clearance or permission.

Establishment of
two-way radio communication, even under flight following, is not the
same thing as a clearance.

A clearance is NOT required for the ADIZ.

In article ,
Ron Natalie wrote:
I believe that entry into the ADIZ requires more than just "squawking
and talking," as does entry into Class B airspace.

The ADIZ requires:
1. A filed ADIZ flight plan.
2. An assigned code.
3. Communciations with ATC.

Like I said, it requires more than "squawking and talking." The
airplane in question did not have a filed flight plan into the ADIZ.


Establishment of
two-way radio communication, even under flight following, is not the
same thing as a clearance.

A clearance is NOT required for the ADIZ.

Not my point. If the ADIZ wasn't there, there would still be Class B
airspace, which does require a clearance for entry, not just "squawking
and talking."



JKG

wrote in message
oups.com...

Flight Following does not guarrantee anything. The PIC still shoulders
primary responsibility to avoiid restricted airspace and other aircraft
(in VMC).

Nor does flying IFR. You are unlikely to be vectored or get a clearance that
would lead you into restricted airspace, but if you go there you are still
the one who gets busted, not the controller.

Michael

Jonathan Goodish wrote:


Not my point. If the ADIZ wasn't there, there would still be Class B
airspace, which does require a clearance for entry, not just "squawking
and talking."

The ADIZ and the FRZ comprise airspace that is outside of the class B.
Following the ADIZ or FRZ procedures don't obviate your need to follow
the class B rules (clearance required) or vice versa.

In article ,
Ron Natalie wrote:
Not my point. If the ADIZ wasn't there, there would still be Class B
airspace, which does require a clearance for entry, not just "squawking
and talking."

The ADIZ and the FRZ comprise airspace that is outside of the class B.
Following the ADIZ or FRZ procedures don't obviate your need to follow
the class B rules (clearance required) or vice versa.

Understood, but in the case of the errant pilot, he was well within
Class B inside the ADIZ. He didn't have an ADIZ flight plan. So my
point is that even if he had flight following, he would have busted the
ADIZ, and if the ADIZ hadn't been there, he would have busted Class B
airspace.



JKG

This is, of course, correct. But that did not stop some Potomac TRACON
controllers from saying "Cleared into the ADIZ." This past Thursday, I was
told that my ADIZ entry was "approved."

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
Jonathan Goodish wrote:



I believe that entry into the ADIZ requires more than just "squawking and
talking," as does entry into Class B airspace.

The ADIZ requires:
1. A filed ADIZ flight plan.
2. An assigned code.
3. Communciations with ATC.

It does not require any sort of clearance or permission.

Establishment of two-way radio communication, even under flight
following, is not the same thing as a clearance.

A clearance is NOT required for the ADIZ.

LWG wrote:
This is, of course, correct. But that did not stop some Potomac TRACON
controllers from saying "Cleared into the ADIZ." This past Thursday, I was
told that my ADIZ entry was "approved."

This has been a continual training issue...the real disaster was that
they established all this ADIZ nonsense at the same time the various
approach controls were getting established in the new Potomac Tracon
facility so it was even inconsistant from sector to sector.
Mostly they say approved because pilots like to hear something, but
there's no operational or regulatory requirement for it.

Jonathan Goodish wrote:


Understood, but in the case of the errant pilot, he was well within
Class B inside the ADIZ. He didn't have an ADIZ flight plan. So my
point is that even if he had flight following, he would have busted the
ADIZ, and if the ADIZ hadn't been there, he would have busted Class B
airspace.

This clown had no clue at all. When he saw the helicopters hee thought
he busted P-40 which is nowhere near a direct route of flight from his
home field to the destination nor near where he was. It's no clear
what his planned route was supposed to be.