Do I need DME or ADF in an IFR-certified GPS panel?

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 14:55:45 -0400, xyzzy wrote:

Doug wrote:

There is, in fact, a requirement to be able to fly the approach at your
alternate without the use of GPS. So having DME will assist you in
finding legal alternates that have VOR/DME approaches. This will allow
you to carry less fuel and more payload. Without DME or ADF, all you
can fly is a VOR approach, and if you have radar, an ILS or LOC (maybe
a few obscure others). Even then some ILS's require DME or ADF.

My home airport has an ILS approach with ADF required, but I just
figured I could use the GPS to substitute for the ADF. From what I
understand of the above, that's true but that also means my airport's
ILS approach is not a legal alternate for someone planning a GPS
somewhere else, do I understand that right? (I'm an instrument
student, still learning this stuff and have found this thread fascinating).

What is your home airport?

Some GPS units (GNS480) do NOT require that the the alternate have
something other than a GPS approach. But I'd like to look at your specific
approach to see if it would be legal to fly the ILS ADF approach there.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On 6/8/05 18:40, "Ron Rosenfeld" wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:20:12 -0500, No Spam wrote:

I see there's a phone number tied to your AWOS - have you tried calling it
airborne with a cell phone?

I was not aware of a phone number; and I just checked the database at
AIRNAV and don't see one listed there or at AOPA. What is it? Where did
you find it? I'll give it a call and see what answers.




Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KEPM under "Airport Communications":

WX AWOS-A: 260 (207-853-0997)

- Don
It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no
distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.
- Mark Twain

On 6/8/05 18:42, "Ron Rosenfeld" wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:58:14 -0400, Ron Natalie wrote:

Jon Kraus wrote:
KUMP in Indianapolis transmits AWOS over their NDB on channel 338.


And neither FSS or Approach can get it for you?




So far as EPM is concerned, the information is only available on the NDB
frequency of 260. Neither Center nor FSS have access to it.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Yeah, some of those AWOS units aren't tied into the "real" world.

If you look at http://adds.aviationweather.gov/metars/stations.txt, it's
listed. However, if you go to ADDS, it won't come up as a METAR station.

- Don
Ships are safe in harbor, but that is not what ships are built for.
- John Shedd

Thomas Borchert wrote:

No,


I had no idea that any GPS approaches existed that required DME - guess that
would make them "GPS-DME" approaches. Can you name some?



You can replace ALL DMEs required with the GPS as long as the DME is in the
database.

Not required. You just need to have any fix of the approach in the
database.

Ron Natalie wrote:

xyzzy wrote:

My home airport has an ILS approach with ADF required, but I just
figured I could use the GPS to substitute for the ADF. From what I
understand of the above, that's true but that also means my airport's
ILS approach is not a legal alternate for someone planning a GPS
somewhere else, do I understand that right?


Yes.

Until WAAS, then no.

"No Spam" wrote in message
...
On 6/8/05 09:17, "Matt Barrow" wrote:

I had no idea that any GPS approaches existed that required DME - guess
that
would make them "GPS-DME" approaches. Can you name some?

One I do fairly often is SDA GPS 12, which is a VOR/DME overlay.
Another is Laramie (WY) Rwy 30.



Matt,

Those approaches can be flown with only the GPS - a DME isn't required. If
you flew them without a GPS, then you'd need the VOR/DME combination.


And all this time I thought the other equipment was required. Oh, well,
better to use overkill then undercut it.

Live and learn.

Point is: if you'll frequently fly approaches that require ADF, keep them
both. I have both and use them just for redundancy. I didn't know that such
redundancy wasn't required, but it didn't cost me anything other than some
minor effort.

(Didn't I see in here somewhere that a ****load(1) of NDB's are going to be
decommissioned in the next few years?)

Matt B.

(1) ****load (n), a large, indeterminate quantity.

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...

Some GPS units (GNS480) do NOT require that the the alternate have
something other than a GPS approach.

Why is that?

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:40:10 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:


"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
.. .

Without an ADF receiver, I would not be able to obtain the local
altimeter
setting at my home airport, and take advantage of lower minimums
available
with that information.

Not on 124.675?




No, the NDB transmits on 260.

Duh!

You're at KEMP (Emporia, KS) right?
--------------------
Airport Communications
CTAF/UNICOM: 122.8
WX ASOS: 124.675 (620-343-3733)

-------------------

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:40:10 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:


"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
.. .

Without an ADF receiver, I would not be able to obtain the local
altimeter
setting at my home airport, and take advantage of lower minimums
available
with that information.

Not on 124.675?




No, the NDB transmits on 260.

Duh!

You're at KEMP (Emporia, KS) right?

Whoops...never mind. KEPM, not KEMP.

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 20:25:15 -0500, No Spam wrote:

On 6/8/05 18:40, "Ron Rosenfeld" wrote:

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:20:12 -0500, No Spam wrote:

I see there's a phone number tied to your AWOS - have you tried calling it
airborne with a cell phone?

I was not aware of a phone number; and I just checked the database at
AIRNAV and don't see one listed there or at AOPA. What is it? Where did
you find it? I'll give it a call and see what answers.




Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KEPM under "Airport Communications":

WX AWOS-A: 260 (207-853-0997)

- Don

I think that's an old number for the terminal building. A sleepy voice
answered when I dialed it just now :-(


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)