TRSA and /X

"Jessica Taylor" wrote in message
...

Are those airportless Class D examples heliports (e.g. Sikorski, near
Bridgeport CT)?


No, they are Class D airspace without any towered airport, heliport, or
seaplane base. At least they were, it seems some of them no longer have
Class D airspace.

One of them was Pearson Field in Vancouver, WA, about seven miles northeast
of Portland International. Pearson had Class D airspace from the surface
to the overlying Portland Class C airspace. Vancouver had no control tower
and was the only airport in the Class D surface area. Vancouver now has a
Class E surface area.


Another one is adjacent to the Seattle Class B surface area on the west
side. This one still exists, you can view it at the following link:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?F27B2314B



A third one was south of the El Toro MCAS which is now closed, the Class D
airspace apparently was dropped when the base closed. Part of this one
didn't even touch the surface. I have old charts which depict this area, I
can post some images if you're interested.

Why do TRSA's exist?

FAA funding and staffing requirements.

Reason was funding. Extra staff for TRSA. Doesn't qualify for Class C.

"Doug" wrote in message
oups.com...

Why do TRSA's exist?

FAA funding and staffing requirements.


How do TRSAs affect those?

"Doug" wrote in message
oups.com...

Reason was funding. Extra staff for TRSA. Doesn't qualify for Class C.


Why would a TRSA require more staff than a TRACON with just Class D
airspace?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Doug" wrote in message
oups.com...

Reason was funding. Extra staff for TRSA. Doesn't qualify for Class C.


Why would a TRSA require more staff than a TRACON with just Class D
airspace?

Answering the latter question alone, some TRSAless Class D radar facilities
have the radar position(s) in the tower cab, which probably reduces the
personnel required compared to a separate room or facility which might
require separate supervisors, etc.

For example at KRDG, the same controller may operate both local and approach
(departure) during off-peak times. Not sure if radar control in the tower
cab qualifies as a "TRACON" though or if there is another acronym for the
setup.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Newps" wrote in message
...

Class D is never an option for a facility with a radar approach control.


Duluth International Airport on the beautiful shores of Lake Superior has a
radar approach control and just Class D airspace. So do Rochester
International, Waterloo Municipal, Reading Regional, Grand Forks AFB, Minot
AFB, etc., etc., etc. Those are just what I can remember, I'm sure a little
research would turn up many more.

Since "Cape Approach" serves Class D at Otis ANGB, Hyannis, Nantucket, and
Martha's Grapes you can add those airports to the list. Especially Otis (FMH)
where the TRACON is located along with an approach radar antenna and Nantucket
(ACK) which has approach radar antenna as well.

Cape TRACON will probably eventually move up to Merrimack, New Hampshire, where
it will join Boston TRACON, which moved there last year and consolidated with
(formerly known as) Manchester approach when it moved in too.

Newps wrote:

Jessica Taylor wrote:


Answering the latter question alone, some TRSAless Class D radar facilities
have the radar position(s) in the tower cab, which probably reduces the
personnel required compared to a separate room or facility which might
require separate supervisors, etc.

It does not affect staffing.

So if a controller is operating both the local and radar approach positions, he is
the same amount of staffing as a tower cab staffed with a local position, plus a
radar approach position operating at a different location (or room or building
etc.)





For example at KRDG, the same controller may operate both local and approach
(departure) during off-peak times. Not sure if radar control in the tower
cab qualifies as a "TRACON" though or if there is another acronym for the
setup.

If radar is worked in the cab it's called a TRACAB.

"Jessica Taylor" wrote in message
...

Answering the latter question alone, some TRSAless Class D radar
facilities have the radar position(s) in the tower cab, which probably
reduces
the personnel required compared to a separate room or facility which might
require separate supervisors, etc.


Why would the physical location of the radar scope(s) affect the number of
personnel required to staff them?



For example at KRDG, the same controller may operate both local and
approach (departure) during off-peak times. Not sure if radar control in
the tower
cab qualifies as a "TRACON" though or if there is another acronym for the
setup.


That setup is known as a TRACAB. I've never been in one, but I assume such
facilities have only one radar position. But many TRACONs with multiple
radar positions combine them at times to one radar position in the radar
room or in the tower cab or even one controller working all TRACON and tower
positions.

It was stated here that a TRSA requires additional staff. I don't see why
that would be, everything else being equal. RFD and RDG have about the same
level of traffic, RFD has a TRSA but RDG does not. I see no reason why RDG
would require greater staffing to work the same traffic.

Jessica Taylor wrote:
Newps wrote:


Jessica Taylor wrote:


Answering the latter question alone, some TRSAless Class D radar facilities
have the radar position(s) in the tower cab, which probably reduces the
personnel required compared to a separate room or facility which might
require separate supervisors, etc.

It does not affect staffing.


So if a controller is operating both the local and radar approach positions, he is
the same amount of staffing as a tower cab staffed with a local position, plus a
radar approach position operating at a different location (or room or building
etc.)

We're talking about one facility that provides approach control service.
It does not matter if the approach controller is sitting downstairs in
the TRACON or upstairs in the tower. The number of controllers required
is the same. All of these facilities will combine the radar controller
and the local controller into one position at times when it is not busy.
At my facility that's every day from 10pm-6am, plus or minus an hour
or so depending on some variables.