C150 Wheel Fairing mounting plates

"GP" == George Patterson writes:

GP BTIZ wrote:
look up the n-number , find the owner and send a nice letter

GP Might be possible. If Thomas put the N-number in his
GP ads. Think maybe that's why he doesn't do that?

So do a geographical+aircraft type filter on the FAA aircraft database
and find it that way.

Brilliant! Here are some candidates:
N226JR
54UT
N3043M
N2285M

These are PA-34-200T Pipers registered in Maricopa County, where this
broker operates out of. Could be brokering a remote sale, sure, but
trying Occams razor.

Brilliant! Here are some candidates:
N226JR
54UT
N3043M
N2285M

These are PA-34-200T Pipers registered in Maricopa County, where this
broker operates out of.

Most likely candidate is N3043M as a "0" appears in the tail number in
one photo.

KR

Ken Reed wrote:
I have a 1967 'C' model Mooney and am thinking about upgrading. I'll
probably end up with a Mooney 231/252/262, but I'm looking at everything
turbocharged. In poking around Barron's web site I saw the following:
http://www.barronthomas.com/34772.htm

Garmin 430 and Garmin 530. Known ice and factory air conditioning with
reasonable times and a good price. I called and talked with him last
week. He was pleasant enough if not terribly helpful. I made an
appointemnt to see the Seneca today at 1pm. I walked into his office at
exactly 1:00 pm. No Barron. His secretary paged him. No Barron. She
paged him again at 1:15 pm. No Barron. She paged him at 1:30 pm. No
Barron. She paged him at 1:45 pm. No Barron but he called the office and
said he would be there in 15 minutes. At 2:00 pm and no Barron, I left.

I had tied down a fair distance away. Just as I was getting back to the
Mooney, here comes Barron in a bright yellow Hummer. He said we could go
look at the Seneca now if I want. It wasn't even there ! It was at
another airport we would have to fly to. I told him no thanks, I have
other appointments I have to attend.

Barron won't be getting my business with this or any future transaction.
Since I doubt Barron owns the plane outright, he's probably just
brokering it, I wonder if the owner knows how he's screwing potential
buyers ?
---
Ken Reed
http://www.dentalzzz.com


I had a lousy experience last fall with another broker based at SDL.

A friend and I spent the better part of a year looking for a 70s AA5B
Tiger to partner on. One popped up in T. A. P. last fall right here in
Scottsdale, so we went over and took a look. Everything looked decent
on the surface so we inquired about moving the airplane across town to
Deer Valley for a pre-buy inspection. The broker informed us we'd
need to place a 10% deposit before we could put the airplane in the
hands of our mechanic. This was the first time I'd heard of anything
like that, but he assured us it would be refundable in the event we
didn't do a deal. We went home to begin scraping up the cash and the
broker called my partner later that afternoon and laid on a sales pitch
worthy of the slickest used-car salesman. It seems there was a party
in Tucson interested in the plane and we'd need to agree right now to
pay his asking price and we'd need to fax over a signed purchase
agreement right away. He assured us that anything that came up in the
pre-buy would be negotiable off that price. My partner and I knew we
were being worked over but based on the airplane we saw and others we
had looked at, and the price (and knowing how tough it was to find an
airplane in that apparent shape), we decided to go for it.

That was Wednesday before Thanksgiving. Monday morning after the 4-day
weekend we called the broker. No answer, no return call. Nothing
Tuesday, Wednesday, ... finally heard from the guy the following
Monday. He said sorry to have to tell us but another party had
purchased the airplane. My partner said he didn't understand how
that could be the case seeing as how we had purchased the airplane over
a week before, but the broker waffled, holiday weekend, didn't get
the fax, yadda yadda...

Not much we could do, but (maybe not surprisingly) the broker called
back a week later with the news that there were some problems with the
other parties pre-buy inspection and maybe we would like another crack
at it. The partner told him, ah, we wouldn't really ever do business
with him thanks. He went ballistic and called my partner a
Mother****er.

What's with these guys?

Anyway, the story get worse then much better. We found another fine
specimen of a Tiger for sale in April, and after paying for a
(spotless) pre-buy inspection and negotiating terms, the seller
suddenly stopped returning calls when we called with financing all
lined up looking for an account number to wire funds into. I'm not
sure if they got cold feet about selling or if someone else offered
more money. After stewing about that situation for a few days my
partner called with details on another Tiger for sale in northern
California. It was just a few bucks more than the most recent deal
that had fallen through, but it had an even fresher factory re-man
engine, a Garmin 430, new paint and new interior - among many other
upgrades. The sellers were an absolute pleasure to deal with and
we've been getting acquainted with our new acquisition for the past
few weeks and having a ball! Now, rats, I've got to find a way to get
her out of town for some real cross-country. I'm thinking maybe a week
somewhere in maybe mid-Wisconson... Maybe late July...

I guess the moral of my story is to hang in there, and watch out for
those brokers.

-R

("Rob" wrote)
[snip]
The sellers were an absolute pleasure to deal with and
we've been getting acquainted with our new acquisition for the past
few weeks and having a ball! Now, rats, I've got to find a way to get
her out of town for some real cross-country. I'm thinking maybe a week
somewhere in maybe mid-Wisconson... Maybe late July...

I guess the moral of my story is to hang in there, and watch out for
those brokers.


Wednesday evening (6 ish) in the N40 for the rec.aviation get-together.
Beer, pop, water, (wine!!) chips, grilled fud, salads, (cheese!!), veggies,
dip, and perhaps a pig. g

Find Jays plane ...
Jay Honeck (Iowa City, IA) Piper Pathfinder (N56993)

Bring a folding chair ...or not.

I suspect your plane purchase saga gets rather animated after you've down'd
a few cold ones. Looking forward to hearing *that* version. g

Hope to seeing you there.


Montblack

Rob wrote:


I guess the moral of my story is to hang in there, and watch out for
those brokers.

Unfortunately, there are some bad ones out there and they make their
whole industry look bad. When I was in the market for my last plane,
I found a prospect that looked good and was only a short flight away.
I was a little leary about it because it was being sold by a broker.
When I asked around the local area (my old hometown), everyone told me
not to worry, that the broker was great to work with. They were right.
None of the sleazy "used car" tactics. Everything was laid out in the
open and he even got me in touch with the IA who'd done the last
annual. All of the paperwork was done correctly and the title cleared
as promised (sometimes a problem with a private sale). Overall, it was
a great experience. I ended up not buying the plane I initially went
to look at. I found my plane sitting on his ramp. It had just arrived
and hadn't been advertised (that's how you find the best deals).

The tipoff for bad brokers is what you described. Lots of pressure
to close the deal and the mention of other buyers who are about to buy
the plane out from under you. The most common tipoff is that they
won't tell you the N number until you give them a large deposit. If
they really have a contract to sell the plane for the owner, they
shouldn't worry about you trying to buy direct. They get paid anyway.
Without a tail number you can't do an FAA records search to see if the
plane is what they say it is.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

We indeed lucked out on our Cherokee. I happened to be of the opinion
that you "look everywhere" when shopping for a job or an airplane. Good
ones are tough to find and you have to sift through a lot of crap to get
the right one. It also may take some time... perhaps a year plus.

Anyway, we were looking in all the usual places at the time and not
seeing anything decent. We went out to the local airports and put up
"wanted" posters describing exactly what we were looking for. One
Sunday, I looked (of all places) in the local newspaper to see a plain
old text ad for a local Cherokee 140. We were really looking for a 180
AND this paper would usually be the last place you would find an
aircraft. They had maybe 1 or 2 ads a week. Called and left a message
and went out to mow the lawn. Halfway through, the wife appears and says
the airplane owner is on the phone.

We hit it off right away when he asked "his" question: "I suppose you
want to come out and get a ride?". I said: "No, please let me know where
it is. If it is O.K. with you, I want to go out and take a quick
walk-around and if it looks like what we want, I will call back to
arrange the next steps". He was floored. He later told me that he had
the plane off the market for 4 months during the winter because he was
tired of tire kickers looking for a free airplane ride. He already had
the replacement plane and was in no hurry to sell. Since he trained in
this plane, he was somewhat attached and wanted the "right" buyer. He
had many brokers and FBOs try to low ball him and said they would run it
out as a line trainer and sell it. He passed on all their offers.

I looked it over and arranged for our instructor to take the thing up.
He met us, threw us the keys and said "have fun" and left the airport!
He asked for no ID. Nothing. We flew it for 10 minutes and checked
everything out. I arranged for a prebuy on the same field with the
pickiest mechanics they had. Even though it was the owners FBO, I had no
problem because of their squeaky clean reputation. Prebuy turned up no
surprises. He had, in fact, done MANY upgrades and modifications to
correct some past shoddy maintenance and to bring the stack up to snuff.
I called around to local banks to get an approximate value. Everyone
said the plane was worth about 15% more than asking.

When we were meeting to close the deal, he said that we were under no
obligation and he would not be annoyed if we backed out. After we
concluded the transaction, he told me he had someone who offered 20%
more than we just paid if we decided to back out. I met the guy who gave
him the offer some time later and found out the story was true.

The owner told us that he INSISTED he take care of the (then recent)
carburetor venturi AD before he delivered the plane to us (at his
expense). He also INSISTED he personally fly it after the work was done
because he had read about some of these "fixes" actually making the
plane run poorly. He also signed a contract I had written that said, if
there were any outstanding ADs that we find at our first annual, he
would pay for them. We never had to exercise this part of the contract.

After the venturi swap, he said he did NOT want us to fly the plane
unless he was confident it was safe. He flew it and was not satisfied.
He said it was running about 150 RPM low at full throttle and returned
it to the shop for correction. After the fix, he flew it again and said
it was running fine. He DELIVERED it to our airport and had it topped
off before he would give us the keys.

First annual was a nonevent with absolutely no surprises. It has been
that way ever since.

I am really glad we ran into this fellow. Money was not his primary
concern and there was no middle man involved. He wanted the plane to get
a good home and wanted us to be safe in it. I shudder to think what
would happen if I had to go back out into the marketplace in its current
condition. Let's see, 1974 paid off Cherokee, 700SMOH, recent paint, new
interior... Nope! I'll keep this one, thank you. And, Thanks Al.

Good Luck,
Mike

Montblack wrote:
Wednesday evening (6 ish) in the N40 for the rec.aviation get-together.
Beer, pop, water, (wine!!) chips, grilled fud, salads, (cheese!!), veggies,
dip, and perhaps a pig. g

Thanks for the invitation! I was at Oshkosh last year for the first
time. I took a month off work and flew up there by myself all the way
from Phoenix in a friend's (now my partner in the Tiger) Cessna 150.
After the show I kept going all the way east and hung out on the beach
in south Jersey for a week before heading home via a more southern
route. I camped some nights, got a room others. It was the experience
of a lifetime (so far... ). I knew about the Honecks' party from
years of lurking around here. It was my first night in the North 40,
but I didn't have the details. I went for a walk thinking that maybe
the big (intoxicated) group would stand out. I probably walked right
past you guys as I later learned here that you were at the west end of
9/27. I wound up getting a couple of cocktails and a sandwich over at
Friar Tuck's. I'll make a better effort this year.

I suspect your plane purchase saga gets rather animated after you've down'd
a few cold ones. Looking forward to hearing *that* version. g

grin. There are people out there who's word and handshake can be
relied upon, and then there are the rest. I try my best to be one of
the former, and to give people the benefit of the doubt until I learn
otherwise. I'd say I'm rarely let down. During my quest for an
airplane to purchase I unfortunately met a few people who fall into the
latter category. Luckily the happy outcome quickly took away the sting
of the prior bad experiences. Get me a little buzzed though and I'll
tell you exactly which broker named Carl you should avoid doing
business with.

-R