Who does flight plans?

Matt Whiting wrote:

Not at all. You come in and level out an inch or less above the runway
and then bleed off speed until you stall and settle onto the runway. It
is very smooth when done correctly.

The plane isn't stalling.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

I do greaser full-stall landings just as I was taught.

I have never seen anyone do a greaser full-stall landing; the two are
contradictory. If you have enough speed to grease it on, you're not even
close to a stall. Most people rarely do full-stall landings, and nobody
I know teaches students to stall the plane in. You touch down with some
flying speed.

Not at all. You come in and level out an inch or less above the runway
and then bleed off speed until you stall and settle onto the runway. It
is very smooth when done correctly.

Maybe nobody you know does, but R.C. Johnston at N38 taught his students
this way for probably 50 years.

Talking about taildraggers here? I greased the three-point landing on
my check-flight, but rarely since. Even on grass, there's generally a
rumble. Perhaps it can be done consistently, but I've never met anyone
who does, not even my instructor.

Wheelies, now ....


-- all the best, Dan Ford

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George Patterson wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:


Not at all. You come in and level out an inch or less above the
runway and then bleed off speed until you stall and settle onto the
runway. It is very smooth when done correctly.


The plane isn't stalling.

True, it is just the wing that is stalling. At the onset of stall the
airplane will settle very smoothly to the runway assuming that the
wheels are very close when the stall occurs.

You somehow seem to think that you can let the airplane down more
gradually using elevator while at a higher speed than what occurs when
the wing stalls. This simply isn't the case in most airplanes. When
the wing stalls, the lost of list is fairly dramatic, but it still takes
time for the airplane to accelerate downward. If you are within inches
of the runway, this will set you onto the ground very gently. Few
pilots can do a more gently touchdown using elevator control alone.

It is obvious that you weren't taught full-stall landings (by that I
mean having the control wheel full-aft and the stall horn blaring at the
moment of touchdown) and don't know how they are done or how good the
results can be when done properly.

You should find an instructor competent in this area and take a lesson
or two. It will be both fun and enlightening.

Matt

Cub Driver wrote:

I do greaser full-stall landings just as I was taught.

I have never seen anyone do a greaser full-stall landing; the two are
contradictory. If you have enough speed to grease it on, you're not even
close to a stall. Most people rarely do full-stall landings, and nobody
I know teaches students to stall the plane in. You touch down with some
flying speed.

Not at all. You come in and level out an inch or less above the runway
and then bleed off speed until you stall and settle onto the runway. It
is very smooth when done correctly.

Maybe nobody you know does, but R.C. Johnston at N38 taught his students
this way for probably 50 years.


Talking about taildraggers here? I greased the three-point landing on
my check-flight, but rarely since. Even on grass, there's generally a
rumble. Perhaps it can be done consistently, but I've never met anyone
who does, not even my instructor.

Nope, Cessna 150s, 172s and 182s. He flew them all pretty much the same
way. Dick could do them very consistently, but then he probably
averaged 20+ landings per day for something close to 50 years. He's
retired now, but still flies his 150 for fun.

I can't do them consistently, but probably hit what I'd call a greaser
about 40% of the time. Most folks I've flown with or watched, don't do
greasers any more than that during a "flown on" landing.

I didn't say it was EASY to do full-stall greasers, I just said it was
possible. I believe the OP asserted it wasn't possible. That is simply
not true.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
True, it is just the wing that is stalling. At the onset of stall the
airplane will settle very smoothly to the runway assuming that the wheels
are very close when the stall occurs.

You really should have gone and read this whole thread before reviving it.
This trail has been worn quite smooth already, and you're on the wrong side
of correctness with respect to the possibility of a literal "full-stall
landing".

You somehow seem to think that you can let the airplane down more
gradually using elevator while at a higher speed than what occurs when the
wing stalls. This simply isn't the case in most airplanes. When the wing
stalls, the lost of list is fairly dramatic, but it still takes time for
the airplane to accelerate downward. If you are within inches of the
runway, this will set you onto the ground very gently. Few pilots can do
a more gently touchdown using elevator control alone.

You cannot achieve a pitch angle sufficient to stall the wing while "within
inches of the runway". The tail of the airplane will hit the ground first.

It is obvious that you weren't taught full-stall landings (by that I mean
having the control wheel full-aft and the stall horn blaring at the moment
of touchdown) and don't know how they are done or how good the results can
be when done properly.

Obvious? What's obvious is that you are making statements without having
the knowledge to back them up. It's also obvious you don't have the good
sense to avoid insulting someone else's flying ability without ensuring
first that you have a clue about what you're talking about.

I can't vouch for George's flying ability, but there's nothing in his posts
to suggest it's anything less than stellar. Your denigration of his flying
skills was completely unjustified.

You should find an instructor competent in this area and take a lesson or
two. It will be both fun and enlightening.

Take your own advice.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
You cannot achieve a pitch angle sufficient to stall the wing while
"within inches of the runway". The tail of the airplane will hit the
ground first.

Pete, what are the numbers on that? (Sorry if I missed it earlier in the
thread.) Let's consider a 172. I've heard (though I don't know if this is
right) that the critical AoA for 172s is somewhere around 15-18 degrees.
Looking at the diagram in the POH, I see the wing chord at an angle of about
20 degrees to a line tangent to the underside of the main wheels and the
tail. So there seems to be room for a stalled landing--especially if there's
flap deployment, which increases the camber and AoA even further. Or am I
missing something here?

--Gary

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

True, it is just the wing that is stalling. At the onset of stall the
airplane will settle very smoothly to the runway assuming that the wheels
are very close when the stall occurs.


You really should have gone and read this whole thread before reviving it.
This trail has been worn quite smooth already, and you're on the wrong side
of correctness with respect to the possibility of a literal "full-stall
landing".

That sometimes happens when you come back from vacatoin.


You somehow seem to think that you can let the airplane down more
gradually using elevator while at a higher speed than what occurs when the
wing stalls. This simply isn't the case in most airplanes. When the wing
stalls, the lost of list is fairly dramatic, but it still takes time for
the airplane to accelerate downward. If you are within inches of the
runway, this will set you onto the ground very gently. Few pilots can do
a more gently touchdown using elevator control alone.


You cannot achieve a pitch angle sufficient to stall the wing while "within
inches of the runway". The tail of the airplane will hit the ground first.

In some airplanes, yes, but in many, no.


It is obvious that you weren't taught full-stall landings (by that I mean
having the control wheel full-aft and the stall horn blaring at the moment
of touchdown) and don't know how they are done or how good the results can
be when done properly.


Obvious? What's obvious is that you are making statements without having
the knowledge to back them up. It's also obvious you don't have the good
sense to avoid insulting someone else's flying ability without ensuring
first that you have a clue about what you're talking about.

I can't vouch for George's flying ability, but there's nothing in his posts
to suggest it's anything less than stellar. Your denigration of his flying
skills was completely unjustified.

I didn't denigrate his flying skills, simply suggested that there is a
skill he wasn't taught. Nothing to be ashamed of about that and it
certainly isn't an insult. I wasn't taught to do Immelmanns, and saying
I can't do one is hardly an insult, just a fact.


You should find an instructor competent in this area and take a lesson or
two. It will be both fun and enlightening.


Take your own advice.

I do at least once a year.

Matt

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...
Pete, what are the numbers on that?

Having accidently scraped the tail on the runway without stalling the
airplane, I have emperical evidence of that fact. Keep in mind also that
the stalling AOA while in ground effect is not the same as that at altitude.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...

Pete, what are the numbers on that?


Having accidently scraped the tail on the runway without stalling the
airplane, I have emperical evidence of that fact. Keep in mind also that
the stalling AOA while in ground effect is not the same as that at altitude.

What aircraft type? Sure, if you fly along low with sufficient airspeed
and then yank back on the yoke, I'm not surprised that you could get a
tail strike. However, if you fly inches above the runway and hold the
plane off as the airspeed decays, you can get the yoke all the way back
and the stall horn on just a second before touchdown. I've done it many
times and this is the way my instructor taught me to make virtually
every landing, even crosswind landings in light winds.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
[...] you can get the yoke all the way back and the stall horn on just a
second before touchdown.

If the stall horn is on only a second before touchdown, you have not stalled
the airplane. The stall horn sounds well before you reach the stalling
angle of attack.