Practice Engine-Out Landings

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 16:05:39 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

With the runway coming up at remarkable speed, I flared and put her down
just past the numbers -- arriving like the proverbial load of sand. It was
a perfect "3-point landing" -- except you don't *ever* want to land that
nose-heavy 6-cylinder on the nosewheel!

Jay,

Do you have any speed mods? I have K2U's mods on my PA28-180 and the
stabilator seal greatly improves pitch authority. It is easy to hold
off the nose during landings (even power off).

-Nathan

Do you have any speed mods? I have K2U's mods on my PA28-180 and the
stabilator seal greatly improves pitch authority. It is easy to hold
off the nose during landings (even power off).

Yep. A previous owner installed every speed mod available on our Cherokee
235.

I didn't run out of elevator -- I just blew the flare, plain and simple. If
I had pulled harder, the nose would've come up, but I am so used to the
flare with power that the descent rate caught me by surprise.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article ,
"Icebound" wrote:



But the question really was: what are the consequences?

Does it typically lug and die, or will it lug and lumber upward slowly, or
do I get one of the above plus twist the crank, etc.???

Do I get away with it? None of the time? Most of the time? Once in while?

I suppose it depends. G Pressures in the cylinder will be higher than
normal, if taken to extremes you might crack a cylinder.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 04:23:28 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Do you have any speed mods? I have K2U's mods on my PA28-180 and the
stabilator seal greatly improves pitch authority. It is easy to hold
off the nose during landings (even power off).

Yep. A previous owner installed every speed mod available on our Cherokee
235.

I didn't run out of elevator -- I just blew the flare, plain and simple. If
I had pulled harder, the nose would've come up, but I am so used to the
flare with power that the descent rate caught me by surprise.

Gotcha. Easy to do, which is why we need to practice these things...

Next time you might try adding about 10 kts to you final approach speed
when power off. The extra speed will help compensate for the lack of
power and make your flare easier. You also wont' need as much flap to
get down.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

and drop that third notch of flaps !!!!!!

Flaps with engine-out emergency landing ????????

Yeah, I've pondered that. I was too high, so I dropped the third notch --
which on my plane we NEVER do, when landing with power, unless we're going a
short-field landing.

Next time, I'll stick with two notches and land long(er)...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

and drop that third notch of flaps !!!!!!

Flaps with engine-out emergency landing ????????


Yeah, I've pondered that. I was too high, so I dropped the third notch --
which on my plane we NEVER do, when landing with power, unless we're going a
short-field landing.

Next time, I'll stick with two notches and land long(er)...

That's one reason I always land without power and with full flaps in
normal wind conditions. That way if (when?) I have an engine failure
and have to do it for real, it won't be a surprise. I've yet to fly an
airplane that won't flare just fine without power, with full flaps and
at the minimum airspeed recommended for approach in the POH.


Matt

That's one reason I always land without power and with full flaps in
normal wind conditions. That way if (when?) I have an engine failure and
have to do it for real, it won't be a surprise. I've yet to fly an
airplane that won't flare just fine without power, with full flaps and at
the minimum airspeed recommended for approach in the POH.

Well, it's not that it can't be done with our Pathfinder -- we did it that
way for the first year or two we owned the plane.

Then we were shooting the breeze with a previous owner of the plane (the guy
who put all the speed mods on), and he told us his "two notches of flaps and
roll the electric trim back as you're flaring" landing technique that he
always used when he owned the plane.

We tried it, loved it, and never went back.

It's a landing technique that simply produces superior results on
medium-length runways in our (somewhat) nose-heavy airplane. As an owner,
I've decided that whatever produces the most consistent, smoothest landings
is what we will use, in the interest of keeping maintenance costs (I.E.:
Tires, brakes, struts, etc.) to a minimum.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
It's a landing technique that simply produces superior results on
medium-length runways in our (somewhat) nose-heavy airplane. As an owner,
I've decided that whatever produces the most consistent, smoothest landings
is what we will use, in the interest of keeping maintenance costs (I.E.:
Tires, brakes, struts, etc.) to a minimum.

This technique may result in increased tire wear from higher landing
speeds and increased rolling distances.
Depending on runway length and conditions, you may also have increased
brake wear.
Strut wear shouldn't matter because, performed properly, the touchdown
speed/rate of descent shouldn't be excessive at minimum airspeed.

This technique may result in increased tire wear from higher landing
speeds and increased rolling distances.
Depending on runway length and conditions, you may also have increased
brake wear.
Strut wear shouldn't matter because, performed properly, the touchdown
speed/rate of descent shouldn't be excessive at minimum airspeed.

Something worth considering.

However, all it takes is one really bad full stall landing on the nose wheel
to make that excessive tire wear seem pretty inconsequential.

;-)

Hasn't happened yet (Mr Piper built some pretty stout landing gear) -- but
it's always something to consider.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"