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#11
July 10th 05, 05:04 AM
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#12
July 10th 05, 05:19 AM
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It takes bleed air which is hot and uses the energy in the hot air to cool
and dehumidify it. It is basically a series of heat exchangers, expansion turbines, compressors water traps/sprayers and valves. The rotating group turns something like 100,000rpm and overhauling one in an MU-2 can be upwards of $35,000. They typically last about 4000 hrs. The alternative is a vapor cycle machine which is better at cooling but even more expensive. Cabin windows and windshields last about 20yrs or so (4000 hr) and on a MU-2 cost $70,000 to replace. Nobody thinks about these things as being typical costs but they can add significantly to the operating cost over the lifetime of an airplane. Mike MU-2 "Richard Kaplan" wrote in message news:1120968289.ca16ce6fd2c4644fb07a8b68b04395b6@t eranews... What is an air cycle machine? -------------------- Richard Kaplan www.flyimc.com
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#13
July 10th 05, 05:34 AM
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#14
July 10th 05, 06:22 AM
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On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 04:02:10 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote in . net:: Sure there are some buyers for which the VLJs are a perfect match. The question is whether there are enough of these buyers to make the concept a success. Aren't VLJs prime candidates for fractional ownership?
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#15
July 10th 05, 01:38 PM
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Mike Rapoport wrote:
"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message news:1120956204.98fefa56d19619adcc5219c8241868f4@t eranews... I could not agree with you more. I also think the alleged market for 1,000+ Eclipse air taxis is utterly unrealistic. I do not believe the market exists for anywhere near that many air taxis within the range and payload capabilities of the Eclipse and given what will be the eventual costs. -------------------- Richard Kaplan www.flyimc.com I agree. The claims of orders for hundreds or thousands of Eclipses are crazy. These proposed air taxi companies don't have any meaningful assets. How are they going to buy a billion dollars worth of airplanes? Venture capital, just like all the other companies that have shakey business plans. Matt
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#16
July 10th 05, 04:06 PM
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Larry Dighera wrote:
Aren't VLJs prime candidates for fractional ownership? That remains to be seen. As NetJets and Cessna learned operating Citation II's, the airplane just wasn't designed for the high number of cycles the fractional operator was placng on them. Cessna service centers provided maintenance for NetJet aircraft. Cessna applied what they learned from maintaining these aircraft to beef up the structures and components on successive aircraft designs. When NetJet began purchasing follow on aircraft to the Citation II's, manufacturers service center maintenance and spares were always included as part of the new aircraft purchase contract.
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#17
July 10th 05, 05:03 PM
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I don't know if they are going to be rugged enough for high cycle
operations. The other issue is useful load particularly with a two pilot crew. Mike MU-2 "Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 04:02:10 GMT, "Mike Rapoport" wrote in . net:: Sure there are some buyers for which the VLJs are a perfect match. The question is whether there are enough of these buyers to make the concept a success. Aren't VLJs prime candidates for fractional ownership?
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#18
July 10th 05, 05:06 PM
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"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... Mike Rapoport wrote: "Richard Kaplan" wrote in message news:1120956204.98fefa56d19619adcc5219c8241868f4@t eranews... I could not agree with you more. I also think the alleged market for 1,000+ Eclipse air taxis is utterly unrealistic. I do not believe the market exists for anywhere near that many air taxis within the range and payload capabilities of the Eclipse and given what will be the eventual costs. -------------------- Richard Kaplan www.flyimc.com I agree. The claims of orders for hundreds or thousands of Eclipses are crazy. These proposed air taxi companies don't have any meaningful assets. How are they going to buy a billion dollars worth of airplanes? Venture capital, just like all the other companies that have shakey business plans. Matt The largest venture deal was only 500MM. These air taxi companies are going to have to demonstrate that the business model works before they get enough money to buy the airplanes they have ordered. Mike MU-2
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#19
July 11th 05, 07:13 AM
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"Mike Rapoport" wrote If you just go flying then it will cost at least $50,000 to get the 100hrs and if you try to actually go places you will be paying for hotels, meals, non flying time ect. I think that this will be one of the biggest limitation to the VLJ market. Ask yourself: "How many people do I personally know that have ALL of the following I see the VLJ usage in the corporate / charter / time share / air taxi market. There will be some Travolta types that have the dough, and the love of flying themselves, but that will be a small share of the market, IMHO. It should increase (significantly, perhaps) the number of people of flying, and the amount of time in the air. Jim in NC
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